Kronos 88 and RH3 keyboard faulty

jick · Post by **jick** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:34 pm

Didn't this video describe the problem?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhmbGfaHy7U

it's of a korg SV-1, but it seems the kronos has the same issue.

runningman67 · Post by **runningman67** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:42 pm

jick wrote:Didn't this video describe the problem?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhmbGfaHy7U

it's of a korg SV-1, but it seems the kronos has the same issue.

Thats a horror movie. gulp .

timojito · Post by **timojito** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:26 pm

jick wrote:Didn't this video describe the problem?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhmbGfaHy7U

it's of a korg SV-1, but it seems the kronos has the same issue.

I've learnt tonight that the Kronos "blocked note" problem I'm having is more insidious than that - it isn't something you can reliably get to happen when you want it to (though yesterday for some reason I was having a much higher hit rate at getting the blocked notes to occur). Saying that, if you mess around for a few minutes the issue will almost certainly crop up and drop out some crucial notes in whatever you're doing, so it's exceedingly annoying.

Sometimes the very first note you hit won't sound correctly, sometimes it's a note somewhere in the middle of a phrase. What I've learnt is there's a fair chance of getting it to happen if you play various patterns using the three notes G2/B2/D3 (one note at a time), which interestingly seems to match with the youtube video mentioned above. Note that you might have to try out different weights in terms of how hard you hit the keys - it seemed that playing heavily and then slightly softening up tended to bring up the problem up fairly often. In terms of tempo, I would estimate I was doing about 240 key strikes a minute total - e.g. playing the repeated pattern G-B-D roughly 80 times a minute - not particularly fast by any means. The uploaded audio clip in my first post (see page 1 of this thread) has an example of the problem and the kind of repeated pattern I was playing at the time. As I say, though, I haven't hit upon a foolproof method to bring the issue up "at will"...

Rookwood · Post by **Rookwood** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:23 am

I spoke to a West Coast (USA) Korg rep (Peter) today about this. He took my information, and said he'd speak to a senior engineer about this issue. My unit is in the mid-500 serial number range.

I mentioned this thread - he's already familiar with the forum.

Just to confirm - I've looked at the midi output, and nothing is transmitted on the second muted note attacks. Likewise, the Kronos 88 performs fine as a controller for SW or other HW pianos/modules.

Playing the Kronos from another 88 key controller does not exhibit this issue. On my unit, the problem is internal to the Kronos, and happens only when you play from its own keyboard.

I've posted a video of this problem. The first muted note happens at around 0:13. I play the keys deep so that I can repro this issue easily, but it happens playing further back as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2lV22JU47Y

rrricky rrrecordo · Post by **rrricky rrrecordo** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:19 am

Korgstream · Post by **Korgstream** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:47 am

Umm.. I will not buy the Kronos 88 until we get official clarification from the Korg, Japan. If representatives of the Korg are reading this forum, please, consider my opinion.

kron · Post by **kron** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:07 am

Rookwood wrote:Likewise, the Kronos 88 performs fine as a controller for SW or other HW pianos/modules.

Playing the Kronos from another 88 key controller does not exhibit this issue. On my unit, the problem is internal to the Kronos, and happens only when you play from its own keyboard.

That sounds like a software problem to me - given the way the keyboard generates and transmits MIDI notes, as well as receives and routes the MIDI notes to internal sound generator is fine. Probably something wrong with internal routing...?

jick · Post by **jick** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:06 am

Korgstream wrote:Umm.. I will not buy the Kronos 88 until we get official clarification from the Korg, Japan. If representatives of the Korg are reading this forum, please, consider my opinion.

I am thinking about seconding that.

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:24 am

Rookwood wrote:I've posted a video of this problem. The first muted note happens at around 0:13. I play the keys deep so that I can repro this issue easily, but it happens playing further back as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2lV22JU47Y

wow, this is shocking. I've tried it this week on my kronos 88 and couldn't reproduce the problem using different playing techniques like portato, staccato, legato, etc. But i never thought of trying this by playing deep on the keys. I will try this this evening and will let you now if my 88 is as faulty as the one in your video.

Rookwood · Post by **Rookwood** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:17 am

I don't need to play deep - it's just more repeatable when I do. What usually happens is when I'm playing between pianissimo to mezzo, I hear the effect of voice stealing, but it's really voice muting. And it's happening mostly below middle C.

Playing deep into the keys exacerbates the 'hammer bounce' which I can also feel.

qrobinez wrote:
Rookwood wrote:I've posted a video of this problem. The first muted note happens at around 0:13. I play the keys deep so that I can repro this issue easily, but it happens playing further back as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2lV22JU47Y
wow, this is shocking. I've tried it this week on my kronos 88 and couldn't reproduce the problem using different playing techniques like portato, staccato, legato, etc. But i never thought of trying this by playing deep on the keys. I will try this this evening and will let you now if my 88 is as faulty as the one in your video.

keyplayer14 · Post by **keyplayer14** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:11 pm

Having now had chance to try this for a bit I can confirm that I'm also able to reproduce this behaviour - to a certain extent. I'm not getting anything like the rate of dropped notes shown in the video, however they are there occasionally.
Also this has only occurred when using SGX 1 - I've not been able to get it to happen using any other engine. Has anyone else found this? It sounds like it's just playing the attack portion of the sample and somehow dropping the rest, so maybe a disk streaming issue?

sparkie · Post by **sparkie** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:37 pm

So both SV-1 and some Kronos have this issue? Wow!

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:20 pm

i've tried it also. It couldn't be reproduced on my kronos 88 (serial 912). The only time a note was muted was when i didn't play properly (like pressing the key instead of playing it), that makes sense because the hammer action wasn't triggered at that time.

So, the horrible action shown on the video is something that i couldn't reproduce.

Rookwood · Post by **Rookwood** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:25 pm

Could you tell me what version OS you have? Mine is 1.04.

Thanks

qrobinez wrote:i've tried it also. It couldn't be reproduced on my kronos 88 (serial 912). The only time a note was muted was when i didn't play properly (like pressing the key instead of playing it), that makes sense because the hammer action wasn't triggered at that time.

So, the horrible action shown on the video is something that i couldn't reproduce.

Fred S · Post by **Fred S** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:43 pm

I couldn't duplicate the issue on my K88; SN 410; version 1.04. Good luck. I hope you get a quick and complete resolution. That would annoy the crap out of me.