Time stretch follow external MIDI clock

zzzwol · Post by **zzzwol** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:54 am

I hope someone knows the answer...

Reviews seem positive and from the published specs, it looks like the MS might be a possible solution to my needs. However, before I make purchase I need to know if sampled loops will time-stretch accurately to follow 'external' tempo changes when the MS is slaved to an external device generating MIDI clock. Documentation is vague and seems to suggest only delay-FX and the pattern-sequencer follow external MIDI clock. Probably, sampled loops only follow internal BPM.

I hope to use the MS to play back sampled percussion loops and single-hits triggered from my 13-note midi pedalboard while playing guitar along with live musicians (plenty of tempo variaton within songs). I already have a tap-tempo pedal which generates reliable MIDI clock, start and stop messages in use on my home DAW, which could be put into service as master clock generator for live gigs.

I use old versions of Acid Pro (v4) and Ableton Live (v7) at home, but don't trust my laptop to be robust or reliable enough for a live environment. The MS might be an ideal compromise.

TijeO · Post by **TijeO** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:58 am

I am interested in exactly the same thing. I would like to know if i can externally change the tempo on a continously playing loop. If so, I´ll instantly purchase a Micro Sampler!

Telengard · Post by **Telengard** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:41 pm

I will try it out on mine in the next coming days unless someone else already knows the result. I know the microSAMPLER can be controlled as a slave, but haven't tried out changing the BPM on the fly and checking the samples to see if they update as well.

zzzwol · Post by **zzzwol** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:00 pm

Cheers Telengard. I look forward to a positive result.

Telengard · Post by **Telengard** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:10 am

Hi,

Just did a few quick tests and the sample BPM stays the same no matter what the master BPM is. I tried it by controlling the master clock via an external source and on the microSAMPLER itself. The pattern sequencer does update and change properly, but not the samples themselves.

Hope that makes sense.

zzzwol · Post by **zzzwol** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:01 pm

Pity. I was hoping sample loops would follow external control and still maintain their integrity as usable loops.

Thanks very much for the investigation Telegard. Ah well, guess I'll have to wait for someone to invent an 'Ableton' pedal...

TijeO · Post by **TijeO** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:19 am

Thanx! I was afraid that would be the case, but not sure. I'm looking for another solution now.

korakios · Post by **korakios** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:30 am

Telengard wrote:Hi,

Just did a few quick tests and the sample BPM stays the same no matter what the master BPM is. I tried it by controlling the master clock via an external source and on the microSAMPLER itself. The pattern sequencer does update and change properly, but not the samples themselves.

Hope that makes sense.

Samples do follow tempo and tempo changes(as master or slave) but you have to set the sample properties by pressing EDIT and BPM Sync.

From the manual:
"BPM SYNC ...........................................[SYNC OFF, TIME.STRC, PITCH.CHG]
This lets you play the sample at the current bank tempo, rather than at the
tempo at the time the sample was recorded (Original BPM).
-SYNC OFF
The sample will not synchronize to the tempo.
-TIME.STRC (Time Stretch)
Choose this if you want the sample playback length to match the current
bank tempo without changing the sample’s pitch.
*Selecting “TIME.STRC” will limit the number of notes that can be played
simultaneously.
-PITCH.CHG (Pitch Change)
Choose this if you want the sample playback length to match the current
bank tempo by changing the sample’s pitch.
In Keyboard mode, all keys will be fixed at the pitch of the sample
assigned to the C4 key, so this parameter will have no effect."

So happy sampling!

zzzwol · Post by **zzzwol** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:41 pm

Hold on, let me get this right... Provided I set a loop sample to BPM SYNC = TIME.STRC then it will keep pitch and follow external tempo control. All my loops are non-pitched ethnic percussion so theoretically the MS ought to work well for me.

Anyone actually done this? What is quality of time stretch? I dont need extremes, but enough to blend with the natural tempo fluctuations during a performance.

Aah, renewed hope...

Telengard · Post by **Telengard** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:29 pm

korakios wrote:Samples do follow tempo and tempo changes(as master or slave) but you have to set the sample properties by pressing EDIT and BPM Sync.

Oh cool! Didn't try that. I remember something about that now. Still learning all the ins and outs. I will try it out again. Maybe someone or me can post some example audio from results.

Sorry for the miss leading info.

korakios · Post by **korakios** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:25 pm

zzzwol wrote:Hold on, let me get this right... Provided I set a loop sample to BPM SYNC = TIME.STRC then it will keep pitch and follow external tempo control. All my loops are non-pitched ethnic percussion so theoretically the MS ought to work well for me.

Anyone actually done this? What is quality of time stretch? I dont need extremes, but enough to blend with the natural tempo fluctuations during a performance.

Aah, renewed hope...

If you want decent time-stretch go with Ableton Live!
But you could upload a loop and I can resample it to another tempo...

TijeO · Post by **TijeO** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:24 am

I found this example on the web:

http://en.audiofanzine.com/sampler/korg ... 01000.html

This kind (and quality) of time-stretching is far sufficient for me! I'm not sure about the context of this example though and who placed it on the web etc.

If i can pull this off live with an external tap tempo switch (i'm a guitarist and I want to be able to sync some pre-recorded loops to a drummer by tap tempo) I'll reconsider buying this.

@zzzwol what do you use as your 13-note footswitch and tap tempo pedal?

Else I'll go for the Jamman Stereo, that can pull off most off the things I want to do (reasonably simple stuff), but the jamman can't play keys / midi stuff, what i feel is an extra bonus.

Telengard · Post by **Telengard** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:36 pm

TijeO wrote:If i can pull this off live with an external tap tempo switch (i'm a guitarist and I want to be able to sync some pre-recorded loops to a drummer by tap tempo) I'll reconsider buying this.

If you want to upload a small sample somewhere with BPM range to try. I can run it through mine and record the results for you. I really hate getting something and then realizing that there is no way to do what I want to do with it, or that the work arounds just kills the creativity.

zzzwol · Post by **zzzwol** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:02 am

Cheers for feedback everybody. Sorry for late post back.

I agree with TijeO. Stretch quality sounds acceptable for me too. As an interesting experiment, I recorded a bit of a recent rehearsal onto tape and imported result into home computer to analyse tempo changes. One song ranges from 118 - 125bpm. Another song I'm currently working on ranges from 195 to 215bpm. If these results are typical then maybe I could expect 10 percent variation within a song.

From research, experiment and info on this forum, I reckon MS is perfectly capable of doing what I need. I've decided to order one shortly.

As for what MIDI pedalboard and tap-tempo pedal I use. Both were built by me about 2 years ago and both are based on cheap PIC16F628 chip. Work fab with Ableton. Ought to work fab with MS. However, I intend to modify the tap-tempo pedal by making an attachment for guitar so I can also tap-tempo with right hand when feet are busy.

Looking forward to possibilities...