Kronos Editor/Plug-In Editor and OS v1.6 are now live.

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:01 pm

Cpilot wrote:Well, I feel like boasting a little. Back in 1965 I wrote a music compiler for a mainframe. You punched up your paper tape using four characters to describe each note (a bit like midi), the compiler read it in and the computer played the tune. The computer didn't have a speaker, but since the cycle time was only 150 kHz, you could tune in the processor on an AM radio. Those were the days - steam computing!

Bryan

Very cool ... I did the same with an old IBM mainframe. Our team also used the IBM 1403 printer to create music.

For those of you not familiar with this printer it was a high speed impact printer, think of it as a high speed typewriter. You could countol the pitch by printing different strings of characters. Strings of dots or dashes wiere higher pitches and X's and W's lower.

We used to shred a lot of printer ink ribbons in those days.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:24 pm

Very creative ... I remember also a program for the Commodore 64 diskdrive that used the v snare (is that an english word?) to create music by letting it spin ... it was not really good for the drive but it sounded more or less musically.

Btw, the cards with holes reminds me of dutch (?) so called 'turn organs' where you have to turn a wheel that moves the paper with holes which is played by a big portable organ on wheels ... still used in cities on shopping days.

Bruce Lychee · Post by **Bruce Lychee** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:00 pm

aron wrote:

I guess since I used to write editors and librarians for a living, I tend to side with the developers. I am definitely biased, I admit.

I do think that people tend to over-simplify how time consuming writing an editor can be. Especially when you are dealing with a changing OS and possibly bugs, thats all.

With all due respect for your experience, the bottom line is that if the user experience is crap, it really doesn't matter why.

I fully understand that software can be a time consuming and complicated process. Nevertheless, talent and resources can usually make the difference. In this case, I'm not sure what was lacking, but I know the end result is not particularly impressive.

cello · Post by **cello** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:38 pm

Bruce Lychee wrote:
aron wrote:

I guess since I used to write editors and librarians for a living, I tend to side with the developers. I am definitely biased, I admit.

I do think that people tend to over-simplify how time consuming writing an editor can be. Especially when you are dealing with a changing OS and possibly bugs, thats all.
With all due respect for your experience, the bottom line is that if the user experience is crap, it really doesn't matter why.

I fully understand that software can be a time consuming and complicated process. Nevertheless, talent and resources can usually make the difference. In this case, I'm not sure what was lacking, but I know the end result is not particularly impressive.

Bruce makes the point perfectly! I downloaded the K editor just to see what the OASYS might have had

(Joking apart there is an OASYS directory in the install so I wonder if this is an editor that started life intended for the OASYS?)

Anyway, being a process consultant I have found it takes as long to build/develop/deliver something badly as it does to do it very well.

The difference between the two is not time or budget - it is entirely down to the vision and how well it is communicated.

Judging by the comments here and elsewhere, it appears to me that something's gone wrong with the vision.

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:54 pm

cello wrote:it appears to me that something's gone wrong with the vision.

This is the exact point! The editor/plug-in is actually very cool, for what it does....it does it well, and offers a nice enhancement to the Kronos 'system'. But it misses out on a huge opportunity to truly bring the Kronos into the 2012 market as THE modern flagship workstation.

Frankly, SoundQuest "style" sysex midi editor/librarian's are a thing of the '80's, and frequently relegated to legacy gear. To see this type of editor provided for the latest Korg flagship....simply misses out on the VISION of what it could have been. What it IS is great....but its limitations, even in the most basic of possibilities (such as providing an alternative graphical representation of the Kronos synth architecture for more efficient over-view editing) are simply disappointing.....and lacking in "vision". Of course Korg has their reasons, some perhaps technical, some perhaps business related.....but in the end.....it certainly could have been more. I for one would have rather sprung for a paid upgrade if it meant adding more advanced modern features and concepts. That's not unprecedented either....look at the "free" vs "advanced" (read:paid for) editors for DSI products such as Tetra and Mopho. You can get the basics for free, or set up to the good stuff. I suspect most pay for the good stuff!

aron · Post by **aron** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:02 pm

> With all due respect for your experience, the bottom line is that if the user experience is crap, it really doesn't matter why.

What the heck? I am only commenting on the TIME that it could take.
Whatever - keep being in your bad mood and attitude. I'm amazed you can keep it up for so long.

Bruce Lychee · Post by **Bruce Lychee** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:41 pm

aron wrote:> With all due respect for your experience, the bottom line is that if the user experience is crap, it really doesn't matter why.

What the heck? I am only commenting on the TIME that it could take.
Whatever - keep being in your bad mood and attitude. I'm amazed you can keep it up for so long.

Actually, you said more than that and so did I. Not sure why you are taking it personally, as I'm just stating the obvious. If the product results in a poor user experience, users aren't going to care why. Especially after waiting a year for its release.

My attitude regarding the Kronos is shaped entirely by my experience with it and Korg. Unless you would like to buy it from me, I suggest you keep your own bad attitude to yourself. My experience with the Kronos has been crap... And I can say that with a smile.

bastimuc · Post by **bastimuc** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:10 am

It is very interesting to follow your posts and the discussion on the editor. It's sad that it is not the real, innovative killer application we all hoped it to be.

Actually, I would have ordered the K right away, if it was. For me (as a player in a hobby cover band) it is so important to work with intuitive and easy to use tools. The editor would have been a perfect opportunity to offer such an interface for the K...

John the Cloud · Post by **John the Cloud** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:12 pm

On the Korg Website is says "The KRONOS Plug-in Editor (free download) lets you use KRONOS from within many popular DAW systems, as if it were a plug-in instrument. "

That is not really true because a plugin instrument has an audio element and a midi element. The plugin only seems to deal with midi. There's no way I can have the Kronos as a discrete audio source in my DAW mixer as I can with other VSTis.

Dan at Korg suggested some time ago that plugin would work in exactly the same way as a stereo plugin VSTi, and that is definitely not what we have got. So either I have completely misinterpreted what the plugin was going to be (and so has Dan), or the plugin has ended up being different from what was originally intended.

I don't regret purchasing the Kronos as it is a fantastic piece of kit, but I can't help feeling disappointed about the plugin. It should be just like a VSTi. The Kronos is capable of running as a soundcard, so I don't see any reason why it could not work as a VSTi as well as dealing with soundcard duties, or running as a VSTi in parallel with my other soundcard. It doesn't work that way, and I can't help feeling a bit cheated.

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:22 pm

Well I totally get your point....and very "literally" you are correct.

But with the Kronos audio driver and the plugin as a midi effect, you certainly can use the Kronos hardware as if it were a plugin instrument. Its just not as slick as having it actually be a VST*i*. Rather you need to use two tracks, one midi, and one audio.

Not what we all expected....and I don't think its even what Korg expected when they first wrote that copy on the website to describe the plugin they thought they were going to produce. But alas...a year later... we have what we have. Its still very functional.....and in my view does not inhibit me from using the Kronos in my DAW....just with a few extra hoops to jump through. I'm more disappointed that the editor doesn't add a more efficient overview and way of editing the synth architecture.....but as far as recording the Kronos into my DAW....its all good, and the editor plugin actually adds quite a bit in this regard in its existing form.

discocubsit · Post by **discocubsit** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:14 am

I'm left thinking "why" and wondering how the virus ti (which is what, 8,9 years old now?) can be so slick and then krg serve up this doo doo.

Emagic Sound diver was the best of this bad breed of limited functionality compromise-ware in the late 90s, and it seemed clunky and way outdated then.

This isn't even up to that level.

It's laughable.

Why are people apologising for the cost of developing a utility for a £3000 imstrument which was sold as being provided with an integrated plug in editor?!

If korg were struggling with cost then make something decent (dare i say fitting theadvertised quality of the instrument) with more limited functionality, don't just lamely hand over some third rate Sys ex librarian and tell us how happy we should be with it.

I'm not normally a complainer but this has got my goat.

It's a top flight instrument and they sold us certain things.

It is certainly not what was described, or euphemistically alluded to in the sales literature!

Bad vibes korg!

Chriskk · Post by **Chriskk** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:37 am

Why are people apologising for the cost of developing a utility for a £3000 imstrument which was sold as being provided with an integrated plug in editor?!

I don't know what their agenda is, but some will defend Korg no matter what.

The editor is Korg's face-saving attempt. They advertised it, so they had to deliver something.

afr · Post by **afr** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:38 am

So, after 7 pages of comments and several threads, I did not see any intervention from Korg people saying:

"OK guys, we will try to do something better"

Good,we'll wait the launch of next EXs for sale before to read a new announcement

Now I understand the tease: Prepare to be amazed

kingtj · Post by **kingtj** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:23 pm

All I can say is that I shared the feelings most of you expressed.
I was *way* excited to hear the editor was FINALLY released, and then all of it was sapped away as soon as I realized what the editor and VST actually were.

I'm glad we at least have SOMETHING (and it actually runs in OS X too, which is a huge plus for me). But really -- outsourced to the Sound Quest people and produced so it looks just like the rest of their outdated looking code?

With all the praise that this was free from Korg, I'd have to say at this point, how about making the SOURCE CODE free as well? Then you could get other talented programmers to make improvements on the basic skeleton, and possibly wind up with something really nice (with no more expense to anyone at Korg).

I mean, honestly, the hard part is now complete, if this editor works reliably and mimics all the functions on the touch-screen of the Kronos. A developer can look at the code to answer any questions they might have about how a given parameter is manipulated. The MISSING part is all about re-thinking the UI for a computer screen, and maybe incorporating OTHER code into it for more functionality in one place. (Imagine if all of PCGTools features were part of the editor, integrated within it?)

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:13 pm

I'm afraid a commercial company will never give their source code away; especially not if it contains building blocks/libraries that can be reused for new material to be developed (read: new supported synths in the future).

About PCG Tools: it would be nice if they can use my source code to be incorporated ... if they will contact me I will give the source code for them to add, but also chances are that it might not be compatible (different environment, programming language, supported OSs etc).

I see one solution but that is an immense job: add all the functionality of the editor inside PCG Tools. To be honest, I will not do it, at least not for every parameter because it would take years for me alone, but if others are interested I can help/support.

Meanwhile I continue adding features to PCG Tools, because that is feasible in the near future.

Korg Forums

Kronos Editor/Plug-In Editor and OS v1.6 are now live.

The Kronos Editor is not as advertised

Wow.... what to say after 7 pages of comments ?