Stand alone instrument for singing with ?

Saoir · Post by **Saoir** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:17 pm

Hi guys ... you may think I am nuts

but I was directed to the Kaoss by someone in a city music shop.

I cannot play guitar any more due to some arthritis in my hands and am looking for something I can play. An auto harp looked a possibility but it is hardly cool

I was told that some version of the Kaoss pad could be used, without plugging it in, and it can play chords in an electronic kind of sound that I could accompany myself singing in the pub ? Folk/rock/blue stuff ?

IS this possible or is the guy off his rocker ?

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:18 pm

The Kaoss products that are used to make music are the original Kaossilator, the Kaossilator Pro, and the new Kaossilator 2.

However, i would recommend buying an iPad 2nd Generation instead because it has a much wider range of music capability using apps. Korg makes two Kaoss apps, iMS20 and iKaossilator that can serve the same basic purpose as the Kaossilator hardware. The iPad ends up being a much better value because there are so many high quality music apps at very reasonable prices, and they are being improved and created at a much faster rate. I own all of them except for the new Kaossilator 2, and a whole lot more besides.

All of them need to be plugged into an amp or PA system. That is not very hard or expensive to arrange. You can get a Behringer B212D or B210D powered PA speaker for a reasonable price.

Saoir · Post by **Saoir** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:01 pm

xmlguy - thanks for that reply.

I play in small pubs with no amps and mainly with a group of about 6 people and usually about 5 people listening around us or at the bar LOL .... not the big time

but great fun.

I will look at the iPad, thanks. I didn't know it had apps that allow playing music ... I wonder how loud though, even in this small space...

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:31 pm

Saoir wrote:xmlguy - thanks for that reply.

I play in small pubs with no amps and mainly with a group of about 6 people and usually about 5 people listening around us or at the bar LOL .... not the big time but great fun.

I will look at the iPad, thanks. I didn't know it had apps that allow playing music ... I wonder how loud though, even in this small space...

I am very familiar with the kind of small gigs you are talkin about. I like jam solo and with friends at coffee houses, bars, wine bars, whathaveyou, just for fun. I know that a lot of the managers at these places can get rather scared of big amps and PAs, because they have usually experienced musicians in the past who cannot control their volume and down out the conversations and dominate the atmosphere. But I have gear specifically for that purpose, which are battery powered and not intimidating at all.

One is the Roland Mobile Cube, which is a very small stereo amp that runs on AA batteries. It does not have a lot of bass, but it is sounds good for mids and treble at reasonable volumes for small gigs. Most managers will not even recognize it as an amp.

Another one is the Alesis Transactive battery powered PA/amp, and various similar models under different labels. This is about the size of a rolling carryon luggage, with collapsable handle and wheels. It runs off of an internal lead acid battery. This works well with long runtime and reasonable sound. The problem is that you need to be somewhat of an electronic hobbiest to use it because the battery is a bitch to replace, and it often is mostly dead when you buy it because retailers do not charge it while it is on their shelves for sale. Once you put a fresh battery in it and always recharge it immediately after use, then it will last a long time and work great. But that is too much fiddling for some people. Ya have to take the amp half apart just to get at the battery, including pulling the speaker.

There are a lot of 8 inch and 10 inch powered PA speakers like the B210D that are also not so threatening. They do require AC power though.

The iPad is loads of fun. Check out GarageBand, iElectribe, NLogSynth, and NanoStudio, for starters.

Saoir · Post by **Saoir** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:40 pm

Thanks for all of that great advice xmlguy. Appreciate it.

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:57 pm

You're welcome and I am glad to help. The iPad is a blast. I recommend the iPad 2 instead of the first or 3rd gen for various reasons. The 2nd gen has better battery life and features than the 1st gen. The 3rd gen is more expensive for the HiRes display, which adds nothing for music purposes, so the 2nd gen is a better value for music, for my purposes.

hazabikit · Post by **hazabikit** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:47 pm

How bad is your arthritis? The reason I ask, is that some of the musical instruments on the iPad require a fairly precise touch.
With some of them, moving a dial a distance of 1 cm can make a big difference in the way things sound.
If you're not comfortable with that level of control, then the iPad instruments might not be a good fit for you.

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:15 pm

There are now many usb midi controllers that work with the iPad if you buy the camera connection kit. There are also quite a few pro audio interfaces becoming available for the iPad that have hardware midi such as the Alesis iDock and the Behringer iStudio. Unfortunately, the hardware Kaossilators have no midi control or syncing except for the KoPro, and the KoPro has a rather poor midi implemantation for using a controller to trigger the notes without a computer and software to translate for what Korg should have done internally.

Saoir · Post by **Saoir** » Tue May 01, 2012 3:34 pm

hazabikit wrote:How bad is your arthritis? The reason I ask, is that some of the musical instruments on the iPad require a fairly precise touch.
With some of them, moving a dial a distance of 1 cm can make a big difference in the way things sound.
If you're not comfortable with that level of control, then the iPad instruments might not be a good fit for you.

It's not really bad ... it's just bloody inconvenient. The index finger on my left hand is frozen straight ... and I can't close my other fingers to reach the strings even though they move freely other than than. My right hand fingers also won't close sufficiently to reach the strings were I to change to left handed playing .... Other than that they are all fine LOL...

It's really frustrating after so many years of music and playing and singing. I have been looking at Autoharps, but they are really difficult to get in Ireland and the UK, and they also seem to have a very high pitched 'toy' kind of sound.

SU7A7S · Post by **SU7A7S** » Tue May 01, 2012 10:55 pm

That must be tough for you to adjust after all the years, i really sympathize. Well the one thing the lads kinda skipped over is the kaossilator pro can be pre-set to a particular key or scale, so once that's done (only takes a second) you'll find it's very easy to jam along with guitars and bass using only one finger to sweep the pad on the kaossillator. it's fun too, and very different. it's easy as f*ck to use and you'll really turn some heads in the pub! the sounds are great and it's easy to find something to fit with whatever style of song your buddies are playing.

On the other hand, what the boys were saying bout the ipad is also true, a one off investment, pricey enough, sure... but then you can download a tonne of apps for as little as 79 cent a pop, and there's some briliant ones out there.

i'd recommend heading into a music shop first and asking for a test drive of the kaossillator pro, you'll know straight away if it feels right. for the ipad, there's loads up on youtube to check out in advance.

good luck, and let us know here what you ended up going with!

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Tue May 01, 2012 11:50 pm

I have to say that iKaossilator on the iPad seems to be much better than the KOPro, at a similar total price.
The ability to pick'n'mix loops Ableton-style is fantastic and something the hardware version can't do at all.

If you just want something to play, then the original kaossilator is probably the best value for money.

Saoir · Post by **Saoir** » Wed May 02, 2012 5:03 pm

Thanks guys - I will try to find a place that stocks these in my city (Dublin) and see if I can check them out.

Control · Post by **Control** » Wed May 02, 2012 6:19 pm

Saoir wrote:Thanks guys - I will try to find a place that stocks these in my city (Dublin) and see if I can check them out.

One word of advice if you are getting a kaossilator.

They are very hard to play with consistency. For instance, if you always wanted to hit certain notes, you may find it hard hitting the exact spot on the screen to make it play that note.

To aid this, I have done things like printing off a Grid which shows where the note changes on the pad are, and using a stylus instead of my finger. It is still hard to play the exact notes you want, when you want, with any consistency.

Take a look at this video to see what i'm talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6O4Sh_T7Ds

This all being said though, i absolutely love my KPRO and use it all the time.

SU7A7S · Post by **SU7A7S** » Thu May 03, 2012 6:22 am

saoir, that place just north of haypenny bridge on left before the epicurian food hall, liffey street or whatever, directly across from gamestop. they have the Kaossillator and will let you test it in store, that's where i got mine

Saoir · Post by **Saoir** » Thu May 03, 2012 6:45 pm

I know it

Cool. I'll drop in Saturday...