Basic question about arpegiator/KARMA

TARKUS1 · Post by **TARKUS1** » Wed May 02, 2012 7:52 pm

Hi All and please pardon my rudimentary knowledge of the Kronos.
I've had mine for a few months now but have basically been using it live with the set list with the modifications to the sounds i've made being very minor. So my question now is:
1. I'm creating a combi from scratch and the first timbre being used has the Karma/arpegiator running. Got this all set without too much trouble. But when adding a new program to timbre 2 I can't remove the arpegiator from it without taking it off timbre 1.
For the big picture, if you're familiar with Foreigner's "Feels like the first Time" i'm trying to create the arpegiator in the left hand while splitting the board and making the right hand the sax solo. But in my case I'm getting the saxaphone with an arpegiator in it which is definitely not the intent.
Thanks

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Wed May 02, 2012 8:20 pm

Set the arpeggiator timbre to a different MIDI channel.
Then in KARMA settings, route that module to that MIDI channel. Here you can also set Thru for Karma-Off (I forget the name of the exact setting)

TARKUS1 · Post by **TARKUS1** » Wed May 02, 2012 8:33 pm

Thanks for the help. I've set timbre 1 for a separate midi channel but to be honest, everything after that is almost foreign to me. Once I get into the KARMA tab I am not sure how to route the module to a specific midi channel and not even sure I'm in the right place. As stated earlier, my knowledge of this beast is limited at best at this time and I have no prior experience digging into the inner workings of a true workstation.

Sparker · Post by **Sparker** » Wed May 02, 2012 9:03 pm

For a simple lefthand/righthand split setup you can set the keyboard range for the lefthand Timbre (played by Karma) so that top note won't play above a certain note and the KARMA module for that timbre won't trigger either. And likewise for the righthand timbre and KARMA module with a lower limit to the key range so it doesn't trigger KARMA.
In the Combi KARMA page you can turn the KARMA module to 'off' for the righthand timbre - haven't got manual to hand so can't reference it.

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Wed May 02, 2012 10:09 pm

Try this, put both programs on channel 1 and set up your keyboard split at what ever note you need, now go to the karma module and set the Top and Bottom notes so that your left hand (karma module) doesn't interfere with your right hand.

TARKUS1 · Post by **TARKUS1** » Thu May 03, 2012 6:51 pm

I've spent lots of time so far running through the options given above and nothing has worked. I'm sure there's something simple I'm missing since I'm new at this. I routed timbre 1 through MIDI channel 1 and set module A for that channel. Did the same with timbre 2 (right hand of split) and also routed that through module B. I made sure to go to the GE setup/key zone tab and it clearly indicates the correct position but I get NO sound at all from anything in module B.
Can't wait till this is solved to start asking more dumb questions.

Sparker · Post by **Sparker** » Thu May 03, 2012 7:18 pm

Hi TARKUS1
I've gotten confused. Could you explain again what it is you want happen?
I had initially thought that you didn't want the righthand split to be played by KARMA, however with your last post I'm not sure anymore. (i.e. Do you want the RH timbre to be played by module B?)
If you can say what configuration of timbres and modules you want to setup then then I'm sure someone will reply with a solution.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Thu May 03, 2012 7:19 pm

Check the input channel for module B. also not sure if you can simply 'pass through' a module like that. I can have a look in a bit and write some directions..

You don't need to route through KARMA if you're not karma-fying that timbre. It's a waste of a module.

TARKUS1 · Post by **TARKUS1** » Thu May 03, 2012 7:28 pm

Hi and once again thanks. i really do appreciate any and all help I'm getting for what must seem like such a simple task to you. While I haven't achieved my goal yet, at least I've been learning some things.
Anyway, the bottom line is that I do need KARMA running for my left hand (which would only be the lowest two notes on the board). My right hand i'm looking for a solo which would NOT need to have anything arpegiated. Basically just a straight solo sax sound. So a dual split keyboard with left hand KARMA and right normal.
So sorry about any confusion.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu May 03, 2012 8:34 pm

Two possible solutions have been given to you;

1. Limit the note range of the Karma module you're using, so that it affects the same range as your split sound. In that case, both sounds are on the same midi channel (which is affected by Karma module A), but you tell the Karma module to not trigger and play notes above where you set your split point for the sounds. You therefore have to specify your note range also in the Karma module A parameters, in Karma=>GE Setup/Key Zones. In the GE Setup bit, it will show the top and bottom key.

2. Put the left hand sound on a different midi channel (say 2). Now, have Karma module A output to channel 2. This is also in the Karma parameters, again in Karma=>GE Setup/Key Zones. In the Midi I/O bit, it shows the input channel (which should remain "global") and the output channel. Make sure the sound you DON'T want arpeggiated is not running through a Karma module.

In my personal opinion, the second option is the cleaner one, programming wise, and also makes things more logical once you get more complex splits.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Thu May 03, 2012 8:35 pm

Right, so I'm going to go to a blank Combi and set up a split with KARMA in the LH and a solo sound on the RH.

I'm used to having quite a complex setup so this stuff is based on all the techniques which are most flexible and will transfer well to other combis.

1. The first thing to do is pick your sounds. I'll assume you're already familiar with this. In my case I've got I-A70 Classic Punch Bass on Timbre 1 and I-A6 Japanese Grand on Timbre 2. Currently you can't hear the Japanese grand because it is on MIDI Ch 2

2. So, go to Timbre Parameter > MIDI and set Timbre 2 to Gch (preferable), or if you insist, 01G. I won't get into the rant on why that's a good idea and 01G is a bad idea, except to point out that 01G will always use channel 01 whereas Gch will use whatever the global channel is (e.g. If you change it or you share your patch with someone who changes their global channel)

You should now hear both the piano and the synth bass play across all keys.
Now let's get some KARMA on that Bass!

3. Set Timbre 1 to Channel 16, or channel 2, or something. I usually use channels 16-12 for KARMA modules. In this case, I'm using 16. It doesn't really matter but it helps to be consistent, especially if you start working with external MIDI kit,

Now playing the keys you should only hear the Japanese Grand.

4. Let's assign a KARMA module to the bass; go to KARMA > GE Setup/Key Zones. Now this page is filled with parameters, as are many parts of KARMA, but it's all quite straightforward once you know what to look for.
It might help to turn KARMA on so you can hear what happens.
Pick a nice GE for module A.
In this case, I picked 0023 Basic Arp ALT2. Note you can click on the GE name to search by bank, but more helpfully, you can click the category box above to select by category, which in incredibly more useful.

5. At the bottom of the page you have Key Zones and such in a section titled 'MIDI I/O'. Just set the Output Ch next to A to whatever you set Timbre 1's MIDI channel to (16 in my case).
Now we should have KARMA triggering an arpeggiator bass line.
Note the check boxes to the far right titled 'Timbre Thru'. This sets whether the input channel will be forwarded on to the output channel when KARMA is OFF. This means that typically those sounds are still playable. Turning KARMA off presently will play the bass sound with the piano.

6. Now we need to set the splits. Still in the KARMA > GE Setup page, you'll see 'Btm' and 'Top' and Zone in red. This is where you set which key zones the KARMA pattern Responds to. This is important because the bass will still be able to play notes outside of this zone, but only this zone specified here will trigger input to KARMA. This is advantageous compared to setting the timbre zone because the selected KARMA pattern may trigger notes much higher across the keyboard's range, which may be desirable.

In this case, just select 'Top', hold down the ENTER key, and press the top note that you want for this zone on the keyboard. That's nice and easy.

7. Now you need to navigate to MIDI Filter/Zones > Keyboard Zones. This time, we're selecting 'Bottom Key' (the row along the bottom) for Timbre 2. Hold down the ENTER button again and this time press the next key up from that you selected for the KARMA module. I used the middle-C key here.

8. Now this should be sounding right with KARMA switched on, however there is still a piano sounding on the lower keys. For me, anyway - this is from the top Timbre 16 which happens to also be set to ch16 by default. At this point, we can go to Timbre Parameter > MIDI and turn all the timbres we're not using (including T16) from 'INT' to 'Off'.
Alternatively, we could have set up the bass on T16 to begin with, and it would have saved a bit of work.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu May 03, 2012 8:41 pm

lol I beat you to it! But yours was way more comprehensive. *tips hat*

TARKUS1 · Post by **TARKUS1** » Thu May 03, 2012 9:27 pm

This is great info and it came out perfect. Now I just have to basically switch out the sounds from your example to what I need for my application and I'll be good to go. I wanted to follow what was written to a tee just to make this programming easy on me as a beginner so I used the exact sounds for my trial version.
I can't stress enough how much I appreciate what everyone

has done on here to help.
Thank you very much.