Help removing delay from Karma

BrendanG · Post by **BrendanG** » Mon May 14, 2012 5:36 pm

Hi. I am using karma on a song for a smooth transition between piano and quiet strings on scene one and Piano with some louder strings on scene 2 ,
But when I change to scene 2 the piano appears to delay a fraction of a second during playing and I cannot figure out how to get it to trigger on time,
When going back to scene 1 there is no delay when playing the notes,
Can anyone help?

think · Post by **think** » Mon May 14, 2012 8:35 pm

You could try to set Scene Change Quantize Window setting (P7-1) to 1 bar.

BrendanG · Post by **BrendanG** » Mon May 14, 2012 10:13 pm

Hi. Thanks for your reply. I'm sure I already tried that but maybe I did it wrong in haste. I'll give it another go in the morning. Thanks for your help.

BrendanG · Post by **BrendanG** » Tue May 15, 2012 9:49 am

Hi. Thanks. I set it to one bar but it still does the delay. It's ever so slight but still manages to throw the song out.
Are there any other settings I could change?

billbaker · Post by **billbaker** » Wed May 16, 2012 12:33 am

I don't know if this is the issue or not but some Karma combinations are set up to re-trigger the "one" depending on your playing style. Ostensibly this is, I suppose, to allow you to do stutter style effects as you play -- if you keep a hand on the keys then the chug stays steady, but if you lift off completely it starts the pattern again at the next key down.

BB

BrendanG · Post by **BrendanG** » Wed May 16, 2012 7:18 am

Hi. Yes this maybe the problem,
Sometimes it does it more noticeable. Maybe it's because sometimes I fully lift off and sometimes I keep notes held down, and so like you say it does not always trigger, I've noticed it more especially when I speed up my playing. So yes, maybe that's when I take both hands off quickly to change chords rather than my slower playing where I sustain the left hand notes while playing the right,
Can it be removed?
When you say re trigger the ONE, do you mean it only re triggers midi 1 or maybe track 1,
If I started the combi in track two or midi 2 would that remove the problem ?
Many thanks. Bren

billbaker · Post by **billbaker** » Wed May 16, 2012 1:06 pm

Sorry, old school music speak. From the one means from the first beat of the pattern. Virtually all triton raps are set up this way, which I like a lot.

However, when I ordered some karma patches from karmalabs and about half of the combis were set up this way. That is how I recognized the symptom. For me at least, this ruined them for live use... I want the chug factor to stay in place not jump around if I am inaccurate by a split second. There is a way to make it so that the pattern keeps going, but I couldn't tell you exactly where it is, except that it's in the KARMA module and is not on the front page (which it should be IMO).

The function may have something to do with the key follow function, but that's just a guess, I'm not sure what it is in karma-jargon. Might be one to post at the karmalabs page for a quicker answer or maybe a FAQ reference.

BB[/b]

BrendanG · Post by **BrendanG** » Wed May 16, 2012 1:57 pm

Thanks. I'll try and play around as best as I can but I've already tried lots of different things,
I'm playing a song by the band journey called who's Cryin now and the timing is quite detailed for the chord stabs and this slightest of delays makes the whole song sound wrong,
Regards. Bren

billbaker · Post by **billbaker** » Wed May 16, 2012 5:03 pm

Excerpt from basic guide:

Trigger (Note Trigger)
You can specify triggering conditions for the phrase or
pattern generated by the GE. Go ahead and try different
settings to hear the results. (PG p.31 “Note Trigger”)
Any: Triggering will occur each time you play the keyboard,
and the phrase or pattern will start playing from
the beginning.
AKR: Triggering will occur only when you play the
keyboard after having released all notes.
1st: Triggering will occur only for the first note-on that
occurs after the KARMA function has been turned on.
Dyn: Triggering will not be caused by playing the keyboard.
Triggering will occur in response to the controller
operations specified by Dynamic MIDI.

------------

I suspect that the combi you're using is set to ANY or AKR. I think setting trigger mode to first (1st) will get you an uninterrupted, continuous pattern for as long as the KARMA On button is lit.

Let me know if this works.

BB

BrendanG · Post by **BrendanG** » Wed May 16, 2012 6:56 pm

Hi. That didn't work,
I've realised a few things while trying,
I have 4 scenes set up,
Scenes 1 and 4 play fine
Scenes 2 and 3 seem to play the notes in a very quick sequence rather than one at a time, it's in a split second,
Now each time I try something new to try and get rid of it I hit 10 notes in total all at the same time
Notes Cdefg using all five fingers on both hands,
Its Not a nice mixture of notes but it makes it easy to hear how bad it's out of time,
Scenes one and four play the whole ten together without problem,
Scenes 2 and 3 seem to play c then d then e then f then g in a sequence, all in a split second, very hard to notice but annoying when you know it's there.

BrendanG · Post by **BrendanG** » Thu May 17, 2012 10:55 am

I think I've figured it out. It's probably not Karma that's the problem.
It's polyphony, I'm restricted to playing just 8 notes as my maximum polyphony
Then it cuts the last played notes out.
I only have a piano and two strings but the ones ive selected must use multiple polyphony,
Not done a search on it yet so forgive me if I'm mistaken.
But I've set up a dummy karma combi and it's fine on some basic pianos but goes wrong on others as the polyphony seems to run out.

billbaker · Post by **billbaker** » Thu May 17, 2012 12:24 pm

When this kind of problem crops up one thing you can try as a quick fix is using GM voices. They may not be the best ones you have on your machine, but generally speaking they use only one oscillator to make the sound which goes a long way toward maximizing polyphony.

If that solves the problem, then you can go back and put in the more important of the sounds (your priority) from your mix in using a double oscillator version.

BB

BrendanG · Post by **BrendanG** » Thu May 17, 2012 1:06 pm

Great tip Bill.
I'll make a fresh start on it

Thanks for your responses.
Bren.