Switched from Motif to Kronos

[michelkeijzers]

Are you congratulating him in the fact that he purchased a Kronos, or the fact that he gave up on Yamaha...

I never understood what IS it with the childish animosity from Korg acolytes towards Yamaha users, and the brand itself.

There's a guy here who makes an effort in especially mentioning in his equipment list signature that even his pedal is a Korg and NOT a Yamaha.

I congratulated him because he selected a Korg which I think is a beautiful instrument. I'm not saying Yamaha is not, I just think it is good for Korg (and thus for Korg users) when people buy a Kronos.

[markn]

Cogratutulations trstack on your new Baby, a very good and inspiring choice for a long time.

Maybe if someone is used to a certain type of UI, even if it is outdated, that user will not easily switch to other synth brands....

This is a very good point Michel. I can second that. I remember whe i switched from Roland JV-Series to Korg Triton, it was a real pain to get used to the new OS/UI, cause Roland´s and Korg´s UI-Philosophies are so different, i.e Rolands Octal System.
Nowadays I don´t understand Rolands UI´s anymore

[Purusha]

I guess there's also the standard loaner thing - especially if there's miming going on?

I remember when Top Of The Pops used to be on TV here in the UK, pretty-much every single act, for some reason, used a couple of Korg M1s.

[MarPabl]

I have owned both the Motif XF and the Kronos. I've just switched my Motif XF for the Kurzweil PC3k Here you can read why I did this.

So I'm able to do a comparison from both. First, Kronos clearly has more options for creating new sounds (9 synth engines) On this regard, Kronos is clearly superior and there are not so many options around that can compare (but Nord Stage 2 and Kurzweil PC3k can be compared to a certain extent)

If you need to compare Kronos and Motif XF, you can only do that with the HD-1, which is the "rompler" on the Kronos. Motif XF has the AWM2. Considering this, the facts:
- HD-1 has wavesequencing, which can be found on Motif XF on a "per-note" basis. So HD-1 is more powerful with this.
- HD-1 has AMS (and mixers), giving you more ways to realtime modulate the sound. AWM2 can also do modulation, but you get fewer options: a modulation matrix with 6 sources and every LFO (9 at most for voice)
- AWM2 gives you access to 8 simultaneous elements (oscillators) and every single one can sound simultaneously. Each element has individual filters, envelopes, amp settings, LFO, etc. In contrast, HD-1 has just 2 oscillators (each one having 8 velocity layers, filters, envelopes, amp settings, LFO, etc.). But the fact is that you'll get at most 4 multisamples sounding at once. And that only if you use layering. Otherwise, you usually have 2 multisamples sounding at once. So AWM2 gives you better capabilities for layering and for building complex voicers. With this capabitiliy, you can have an organ with up to 8 virtual drawbars, where you can set realtime the level of each drawbar. While CX-3 is better for this (up to 16 drawbars, and with different upper/lower configurations), AWM2 can do something you can't with HD-1.
- AWM2 gives you XA (expanded articulation) which allows you to set conditions to determine when a particular element (oscillator) will sound. This gives you better simulation of nuances for acoustic sounds, like guitars, strings, etc. You can even have different waveforms sound each time you press a key (the "wavesequencing" on AWM2) So AWM2 gives you better control for nuances of your sounds, allowing you to have different waveforms (multisamples) for different playing techniques at once (natural vibrato, non-vibrato, legato, staccato, harmonics, pizzicato, etc., etc.)
- The waveforms (multisamples) on AWM2 allow you to set velocity layers. Therefore, the waveforms can be more complex than multisamples on HD-1 (here you can only set an alternate starting point for legato playing)
- Motif XF gives you up to 2,789 Mb of waveforms (multisamples) to use at once by installing both FL1024M flash memory expansion boards (which BTW are expensive). Considering this thread: EXS data the 9 EXs libraries will take 1,196 Mb of RAM. Also, Kronos can have up to 2,013 Mb available. So with Motif XF you can have more multisamples, which BTW are superb just like the multisamples you have with Kronos. Also, the flash memory expansions allow you to permanently store the waveforms, whereas on Kronos you have to load them every time you power on (Kronos is slow to turn on)
- Comparing Program/Voice mode, HD-1 has up to 16 effects (12 IFX, 2 MFX, 2 TFX). AWM2 will have just 5 effects (2 IFX, 2 SFX, 1 MFX). However, the effects on AWM2 are "polyphonic" because when you combine voices on a performance (combi), you immediatly get the IFX of every part (timbre) so you can have up to 11 effects (8 IFX, 2 SFX, 1 MFX). While this is not as powerful as Kronos (you could have way more effects by using EXi's with integrated effects, like EP-1, CX-3 and so on), this is easier to manage and by no means it's limited.
- Comparing sequencers, Motif XF is better because you get 2 different paradigms: linear (song) and loop based (pattern) whereas on Kronos you just have linear (ugly and not as good as on M3) mode. You can use RPPR but that's not as good as patterns on Motif XF.
- Comparing integration with computer and DAW, Motif XF is better when you add the (expensive) FW16E (firewire) interface which gives you 16 digital audio ins, 6 digital audio outs and 48 MIDI channels. With Kronos you get 2 digitals inputs, 2 digital outputs and 16 MIDI channels.

Regarding, the "old synthesis technology" I used to think the same because Yamaha hasn't updated their synthesis model name, just as Korg has done. But in reality Korg has used the same concept since AI (M1 - 1988), Wavestation (1990), AI2 (01W - 1991), HI (Trinity - 1995), HD-1 (Oasys/Kronos - 2005), EDS (M3 - 2007) which generally speaking (except Wavestation) give you of 2 oscillators each one having velocity layered multisamples, and a bunch of modulation and fine adjustment for each individual oscillator. Of course we have seen many enhancements with each iteration, as more configuration options, increase in polyphony, quality of multisamples and so on... but this is the same with Yamaha.

In conclusion, and aside of SGX-1, I prefer Motif XF for acoustic sounds (and in general as a "rompler") because in fact AWM2 gives you more raw power as a synth engine (that's a shame they don't give you AMS) and the waveforms are simply superb. Thinking that Motif XF is pretty inferior as a rompler, just shows no knowledge about AWM2.

[SanderXpander]

That's a really nice comparison of relevant features, thanks for that!

[RonF]

That's a really nice comparison of relevant features, thanks for that!

Ditto....Great post!

[NuSkoolTone]

As an owner of a Motif XS and a Kronos. I can say wholeheartedly I wouldn't sell my Motif (yet). There are far to many holes in the soundset of the Kronos the Motif puts to shame, especially with the free extra samples available for the Motif from Yamaha.

There are several things, but off the top of my head the biggest most obvious are the rock saxophones (not even a contest in ANY universe) and the guitars (especially distorted ones). The Saxes I use on a regular basis, and I cannot stomach the saxes on the Kronos after being used to the ones on the Motif. They might be good for classical, but they pretty much suck balls at everything else IMO. Until new samples are released, the saxes only get played on the Kronos if there's nothing else available. Ditto with the guitars. There's other sounds too, but those two alone are why I wouldn't even CONSIDER giving up my Motif for what we do! Of course YMMV depending on what YOU do and the Kronos has more technical abilities. IMO it's a great machine, but still has a ways to go to be king of everything. In closing, I'll say they're a match made in heaven and compliment each other VERY well!

[MrDuke]

MarPabl, a good and an informative post, and I agree with most of it.

I think the Motif (XF) excels in
- acoustic and electric guitars, the new "Amped Top" patch in the XF for example is great (I for one am not keen on the "distorted guitar" patches, they've been lame in pretty much all workstations since the dawn of time...and I never use them anyway)
- various flutes, reeds and woodwinds - including some very usable ethnic stuff in the Flash libraries
- very usable acoustic and electric basses
- usable solo saxes and brass
- misc acoustic stuff like marimba

They're all superb for a megabyte machine. Synth leads are its major weakness, just bleak stuff all around. Acoustic drums are decent, but because you can only have one sample per note, and no velocity switching (as in, no different samples), they just lack life, for ride cymbal for instance. They're still usable, but I'd much rather just load up my XLN Addictive Drums for that...

Surprisingly, Motif XF/XS is also capable of some pretty damn enjoyable organs from a sample-based machine - purchase the ksounds Organimation Pack for proof. You can get some FINE gospel-tinged organs especially, a real joy to play.

Some people like Motif's electric pianos. While some patches like the ubiquitous "Vintage 74" patch might have impressed you in the past, they just can't compete with instruments or plugins that do Rhodes modeling, or multi-gigabyte sample Rhodes. The Wurlies can be decent. The clearly audible velocity switching is the biggest problem after playing a beautiful, modeling EP.

[trstack]

Replying to my own post -

I received my new Kronos 88 and returned the floor model. I have serial number 3790. Very happy with the keyboard, no key bed issues.

[michelkeijzers]

Replying to my own post -

I received my new Kronos 88 and returned the floor model. I have serial number 3790. Very happy with the keyboard, no key bed issues.

Congratulations and enjoy the Kronos.

[Dniss]

No childish animosity here, I love em both

+1