okay fair enough, but the way you wrote the post gave the impression that you did not own the pa3.
In regard to this :
I have a songbook entry with some neat settings i like and i want to save this settings to the style itself so when i call the style it is a copy of that songbook entry
It could not be easier - load the songbook entry (ensure all locks are off) then exit the songbook select page and back to the main view, and without loading anything else, simply select Write Single Touch Settings (save all four) and then follow this with Write Current Style Settings, and press okay to overwrite the style...it's as easy as that.
Remember if you want to overwrite a factory style slot, you will need the protect locks off for them.
As for your transpose question I must admit that I misunderstood the manual on that one... I only ever use transpose on a Songbook entry, and personally see no need to use it on my style resources..but I can see where it could be useful for some.
My bad in regard to transpose locks...you are correct in that you cannot have styles transpose locked and songbook styles transpose unlocked....I just learnt something myself
But, I do draw the line at calling it a "bug" it is merely an option not available, that it should be is beside the point really. A bug is an error in the software coding, NOT a non-existent feature.
Could this be done on the PA2? I never tried it there either. I always just use the Songbook....
Hi again. I assure you it can be done on pa2x, that's why i call it a bug. The same exact procedure on pa3x do not work the same way.Well, about style saving. Call the songbook entry. Exit the songbook and back to main page. Do Write Single Touch Settings or Write Current Style Settings. Press Ok..... It saves on songbook. Not on style. Don't know why..... Only saves on style if i call that style on style select menu first. If i call any songbook entry and make Write Current Style Settings on main menu pa3x saves on songbook. The procedure you described works fine on pa2x but not on my pa3x. Don't know why........ Did you test the procedure on your pa3x?
musicrazy wrote:Hi again. I assure you it can be done on pa2x, that's why i call it a bug. The same exact procedure on pa3x do not work the same way.Well, about style saving. Call the songbook entry. Exit the songbook and back to main page. Do Write Single Touch Settings or Write Current Style Settings. Press Ok..... It saves on songbook. Not on style. Don't know why..... Only saves on style if i call that style on style select menu first. If i call any songbook entry and make Write Current Style Settings on main menu pa3x saves on songbook. The procedure you described works fine on pa2x but not on my pa3x. Don't know why........ Did you test the procedure on your pa3x?
All I can say is that that is exactly how mine works...I can overwrite any style with a ny data I like...
A user cannot save ANY songbook entry outside the Songbook editing pages....so I don't know how you are managing to use the write current style settings and somehow this is overwriting the Songbook???
You DO have the Factory Style and Sound Protect lock off, yes?
And again it is not a bug it is only that Korg left it out of the OS. In other words it is an option not available on the PA3, A bug is totally ONLY errors in programming data in the OS code lines!!!!
Very hard to see what you are trying to do really...the second video is worse than the first, HOWEVER
The big thing I noticed was that the transpose setting (along the top bar in the centre) for all was always at 0
If you press the transpose button on the panel that image changes to reflect the transpose setting...even if it does not get saved, it at least changes in real time when transpose is actually modified.
Were you actually pressing the transpose buttons on the panel to alter the transpose and then saving the style/performance/sts? Because I saw no evidence that you did..
Where are you actually selecting a transpose setting from?
And can you show a pic of your global lock settings page please?
What i'm trying to show you is the save style settings on main page doesn't save on style if you load a songbook entry just before.
you said " A user cannot save ANY songbook entry outside the Songbook editing pages....so I don't know how you are managing to use the write current style settings and somehow this is overwriting the Songbook??? "
So... see it on the video...
The objective of the video has nothing to do with transpose settings.
Just trying to show you what happens with style settings (sounds volumes etc) and sts saving on mainscreen after songbook entry loaded.
You can see on second video the sts i modified (with fx) and then saved on main screen sts save it goes to songbook sts. after that i recall the songbook and sts modified is there and not on sts style itself......
I know i cannot express myself well in english but i think you can understand....
Sorry about quality of the video. My camera is somehow defocusing everithing.
What I suggest is that the Songbook entry and the style on yours are in fact exactly the same that is why it "APPEARS" that they are not changing...
I just loaded a Songbook entry. I edited and saved the edited style to its style location (NOT the songbook).
(I am using that same style but with altered settings in the songbook.)
When I re-select the songbook version it comes up with the songbook settings, NOT the ones I just saved in the style which was ONLY saved to its style location.
Writing a style does NOT overwrite the songbook entry...you need to be in songbook mode and use the write command there to affect a songbook listing.
I would suggest you are doing things in not quite the right way...
I really hope you are not sugesting i am trying to trick somebody.... tomorow i will do it with a digital dv cam. You still can see on this bad quality videos that the sounds changed.... you can hear it on drums beacuse it's another kit..... well. In the video you see me doing write style and then recall the style on styles menu.... the style changes to first form....... then i load songbook and changes to the setting i've done .... I'm getting really pissed. No one saw this yet??????? just me???? it's my keyboard???? no it isn't . I tried that on several pa3x...... Look miden i'm not upset with you ....Just trying to prove i am right without being rude. I really know well korg keyboards and os..... And i'm really sure of what i am saying...... I know that on your keyboard you can reproduce this situation . Make this:
Load style from songbook.
Don't change nothing but volumes on style tracks (mixer) and change a couple of sounds on style and maybe the drum kit if you want.
Then do write style settings on main page.
Call another different entry on songbook.
Load the same entry again.
The setting you've done are recalled...... so it saved on songbook.
load different style on style menu
Reload the style of the songbook (on style menu)
The style has the same settings before you changed on second step....
If someone else can try this... Give me your results.
I don't think it has something to do with lock menu.. what setting do you have on your locks ?
Okay...it does not SAVE to the songbook...let's get that one straight.
What the Songbook is doing is loading the style resource as written to the style.
But, I have to say the Songbook SHOULD ONLY recall the saved settings from the Songbook listing, which are supposed to over-ride any style settings that might be part of the source style resource. Assuming all locks are off. I have all locks off on my PA3.
I am glad you wrote it out like that. Makes MUCH more sense to me now. The video without commentary was a bit tough
I followed your steps and got the same result. However, when I edited the style and saved via Write Current, then re-setup the Songbook listing, the SB version loads as it should, and the written style loads as it should.
Still not convinced it is a bug though, I think it may have something to do with STS settings...I will have a play around with it and see what comes up....
Hi . I understand songbook doesn't save anything to it because it's just a database... I was trying to be simple on description. The problem with it is just that override system implemented on os not working like on pa2x.
I don't know if korg made structural changes of songbook on pa3x or if they wanted to be like that but on korg pa2x this doesn't work this way. And it's not only the style. the sts's are working the same way.... Just dont' understand why korg changed this without a note on pa3x manual to more experienced users that came from older models. I really think they did not want things to work like that.... Maybe i'm wrong but if mr tramannoni is following this perhaps he can give us an answer.
I would appreciate it...
Cheers.
Last edited by musicrazy on Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
You may be right...still haven't got to checking STS but as they really don't store anything directly related to styles I agree with you I think.
You can avoid it though...just remember to re-set the SB listing to how you had it..I know it should not need to be done that way, but it is a wrok-around of sorts.
As I never used the PA2 (or the PA1 for that matter) in this way, I will take your word for it that it did work on those...
That being the case, I can offer no reason other than it was forgotten about, for the PA3 to not have the same function...
Right, after some further investigation, I suspect it has to do with performance and style performance settings....
Have a read of the following from Korg, it makes interesting reading, even if a bit long. But it IS very explanatory:
Style Performance
The Style Performance stores all available Style Play Mode settings for the Style Tracks, including Volume, Pan, Fx, Wrap-Around, EQ, Tempo, Track Mute, etc. All settings available in Style Record Mode (notes, NTT settings, key, keyboard range, etc.) are not saved in the Style Performance but in the Style Pattern Style Record itself, making those two ambients environments separate as for the kind of parameters and saving procedures.
How to recall a Style Performance: A Style Performance is recalled togheter with the Style itself.
How to save a Style Performance: There is only one a single Style Performance for each Style and can be saved, only overwriting the old one in the same Style location in memory, by using the Page Menu -> Write Current Style Performance command or the shortcut Shift + any of the Style Select buttons (you do not need to press the button corresponding to the target location).
Performance
The Performance stores:
- one full Real Time Tracks setting (Upper 1, 2, 3 and Lower - see above) + Voice Processor Preset: in practice, it's the equivalent of a single STS,
- one full Style Performance (but not including the Style Record data),
- the "link" to a particular Style location, so that when the Style Change function is on, the selected Performance also recalls, togheter with the Real Time Tracks settings, a Style. This Style will not play with the original Style Performance, but with the one saved along with the Performance itself.
Let's see an example of a possible application of this concept. You have a Cool Bossa style in the Pa800 Latin style bank (location 3). Now you would like to use the same style with two different sounds: an Octave Piano and a Glide Piano (but it could also be a Flute, a Sax or whatever you like).
Now turn the Style Change and the Performance Select functions on (if any) and:
- select the "Octave Piano" Performance (Piano Bank - Page 1 - Location 3): this Performance will select an Octave Piano sound for the Real Time Tracks, the Cool Bossa style with a Style Performance at 147 BPM starting with CountIn to Variation 2, (among others).
- now select the "Glide Piano" Performance (Piano Bank - Page 2 - Location 13): this Performance will select a Glide Piano sound for the Real Time Tracks, the Cool Bossa style with a Style Performance at 156 BPM starting with Variation 3 (among others). This means that a lot of settings can be changed, including Send Fx, Fx Type, Fx Settings, Track Mute, Sounds, etc.
So we get two completely different combinations of Real Time and Backing Tracks at the touch of a button, but it's important to underline that the original Cool Bossa style remains untouched: by selecting the original style just using the style selection buttons, we can see that it's still at 148 BPM starting with Variation 1. This feature highlight the flexibility of having a style that doesn't need to be physically duplicated to be used in two or more different situations - something that is further expanded by the SongBook feature.
How to recall a Performance: turn the Performance Select button on and use the row of buttons under it, or use the "PS" area of the Main Page to open the Performance Selection Form.
How to save a Performance: using the Page Menu -> Write Performance option or the shortcut Shift + any of the Performance/Sound Select buttons. This will open a dialog box allowing naming/renaming, and a way to select a Performance location.
And then to follow:
In SongBook
This is the most complete and flexible way to store your settings and it is based on a simple principle: here you can save everything that is necessary to play a particular song. It's not the usually concept of selecting a style or a midifile, then selecting 2, 3 or 4 different sounds or performance to play on top of it, maybe adding also a text to sing along: with a single operation you immediately get all of them. This feature is over any concept of mode (Style Play or Song Play) and it doesn't matter if you play using a style, a midifile or an Mp3: the right resource is selected along with the correct Mode to play it and adding any other useful setting like text, transpose, genre, artist name, Voice Processore preset, etc. you may have programmed before.
It is important to remark also that the SongBook recalls resources without making any modification to the resource itself, giving you the flexibility to share the same resource, whatever it is, for different contexts. For example, you can use the very same style to make different songs just changing the BPM, muting Tracks, changing Sounds, FX, FX Send, Eq, Volume, Pan, STS, Pads, Mic settings, Split Point, Tuning, Assignable Switch, etc. but leaving the original one untouched.
STS (Single Touch Setting)
Each song entry has its own STSs. If the entry is based on a style, these can be different from the ones in the original style, that are left untouched.
How to recall an STS: after a SongBook entry has been loaded, select STS 1, 2, 3 or 4 or use the Touch Screen display with the STS Name tab activated in the Main Page.
How to save an STS: with the SongBook open, select the "Book Edit 1" tab, check the "Write STS" box, choose to save one (the current selected sound) or all (the current selected style STS), then push the "Write" button in the lower-right side of the screen to save the settings.
Single Touch (Button)
This button works in a different way depending on the type of resource selected (Style or Standard Midi File/Mp3).
Using Styles: it works the same as in Style Mode (see above).
Using Standard Midi Files/Mp3:
- Steadily On or Flashing: 1) if none of the two Sequencers is playing, the Song is loaded into Sequencer 1 along with the STS, and STS1 is selected; 2) if one of the Sequencers is playing the Song is loaded into the other one, and the current STSs of the playing Sequencer are kept to avoid interference. When the new song starts (just using the Play button) then the STSs are loaded and STS1 is selected.
- Off: 1) if none of the two Sequencers is playing the Song is loaded into Sequencer 1 along with the STSs, but none of them is selected; 2) if one of the Sequencers is playing, the Song is loaded into the other one and the current STSs of the playing Sequencer are kept to avoid interference. When the new song starts (just using the play button) then the STSs are loaded but none of them is selected.
Performance
The Performance is not saved/recalled anywhere in the SongBook (you use the STSs instead) but can be accessed anyway when the four STS are not enough or for any other particular reason. It looks logical anyway to program at the best the four STS for any SongBook entry that in most cases fit the job.
Recalling and saving procedures are the same as in the Style Play and Song Play modes.
How to recall a Performance: turn the Performance Select button on and use the row of buttons under it or use the "PS" (meaning "Performance/STS") area of the Main Page display to open the Performance Selection Form.
How to save a Performance: using the Page Menu -> Write Performance option or the shortcut Shift + any of the Performance/Sound Select buttons. This will open a dialog box allowing naming/renaming and choosing a Performance location.
now I disagree... lol
I don't think it has anything to do with style performance. Style performance it's just another way of saving style settings. In reality this is the old roland way to store settings. So we can have many options about the way we work on a gig. It depends on your preferred workflow. I prefer the songbook because it is the most versatile. but i could do almost the same things with perfomances. I just use the perfomances to have favorite sounds not stored on one of the four sts's available on songbook entrys.
I really think it was something korg developers didn't coded like it was supposed to be on Pa3x. Maybe they will correct this if they see it like a fail.
If not, and if it is suposed to work like that, than i can live with it.... but would be very happy if this were changed to the older pa series method.
The thing that annoys me most it's the transpose reset to 0 on songbook entry when we save an sts with this method. (saving sts on mainscreen).
Still, pa3x is the best Arranger on market and it will be for the next years. The second one is the PA2x , so korg is really dominating the market.
musicrazy wrote:
If someone else can try this... Give me your results.
I checked and the results are the same in my Pa3x.
For me it is not a problem though.
Transposition works well if you don't save STS in style,
you can do it in Songbook instead.
The thing I am not able to solve is the octave transposition
for the VH in notes mode.
I would like to control VH with the upper keyboard, in style mode,
but then I would have to play lower than the split point.
So I need to move notes controlling VH up one or two octaves.
And when I change octave transposition it does not affect VH,
I tried changing parameters of Global -> MIDI -> Midi In Control
-> Voice Processor Midi Controls
but it didn't work for Style Mode.
Also the Harmony Control in Page3 of SongBook is greyed out.
Any clues?
deepak wrote:Hi guys and Gals, purchased / upgraded PA 800 to PA3X. It loses transpose settings in the saved song book entries at times. Am I doing something wrong? I also notice a pop noise when I switch off the PA3X. Please comment. Thanks
the same witn my pa3, but when I load song entry in player 2 only. So it is bug for sure, because loading the same song entry twice will resolve my problem.
now I disagree... lol