Strategy to transfer sampled sounds to Kronos

TiGroove · Post by **TiGroove** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:36 pm

I wanna have some of my favourite Sounds (Tranceleads, Omnisphere Choirs and pads, JP8000 SAW...) to the Kronos.

Here are my Thoughts how to do it on an Example of a nice Omnisphere PAD

1. Open Omnisphere with the desired Sound in Ableton
2. Edit the sound inside Omnisphere to have a raw version (remove some Effects,BPMsynced Modulation, Filter- and Amp Envelopes...)
3. Record different Samples(*.wav) out of Ableton (1 per octave...)
4. Import this Samples into my VSampler (VST-Sampler Plugin)
5. Editing the Sounds inside VSampler(Looppoints,Root-Notes, Crossfades) for this is faster done than inside the Kronos
6. Export them as Soundfont 2 to a USB-Drive
7. Import them into the Kronos to empty Program-slots
8. Try to recreate the original Omnisphere sound (adding Envelopes, assign Filter, FX..) for a maximum on flexibility and BPM syncronisation
9. Save the Programs and Samples on SSD and make them somehow Autoload at Systemstart
10.Use the USER-Multisamples also for creating of other Programs and Combinations

Questions:

a. Ist this workflow realistic ?
b. How to effectiv name , save and organise the Multisamples inside Kronos (to realise 8. and 9.) ?

Thanks for your help....the Manual ist not clear to me at this point.

needamuse · Post by **needamuse** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:53 pm

Hello TiGroove
Qui Robinez has made an excellent tutorial on this.
Greetings, Rudolf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nURLCUGAzTw

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:54 am

That's waaaaayyyyyyyy too hard, complicated and long, there can also be
only one single procedure, use Extreme Sample Converter, Export into SF2
and Load directly into Kronos.

TiGroove · Post by **TiGroove** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:24 pm

HI,

I did the following test yesterday:

1. Loaded a Bank with just 1 Instrument into VSampler (containing 6 samples spread over the keyboard ) ==> 1 Multisample
2. exported this bank to *.sf2
3. loaded it into the kronos
4. The kronos created 3 Programs and 3 Multisamples,
the keyzones where correct but splitted to 3 Programs
(i.e. Program 1= c1-B2,Program 2= c3-B4, Program 3 = c5-c7)

==> I expected 1 Program and 1 Multisample

What could be the rootcause of this problem??

Thanks

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:47 pm

BasariStudios wrote:That's waaaaayyyyyyyy too hard, complicated and long, there can also be
only one single procedure, use Extreme Sample Converter, Export into SF2
and Load directly into Kronos.

i'll have to partly disagree here, first of all it is wise to have some basic understanding of the sample process so that you could modify unwanted behavior yourself.

second of all, omnisphere doesn't work in Extreme Sample Convert which can't handle Large VSTI's due to the memory limit. So in that case you need to do it yourself.

But if someone bought ESC and want to clone presets of simple VSTi's like FM8 or absynth then ESC is indeed a time saver.

AntonySharmman · Post by **AntonySharmman** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:45 pm

A couple of tips that might help you.

- ESC can re-sample any VSTi and any duration like 40sec/sample
but your PC/Mac can't for many reasons and weaknesses of moderate systems.
A very strong PC station can handle anything ,like mine that can handle
omnisphere at 8 individual interfaces , but is i7 4X4 GHz and 32 Gb Ram DDR3.
- In simple cases like TiGroove I usually convert SF to triton KMP & PCG files
via awave studio that can handle KMP stereo samples , directly import in Kronos
user's multisamples bank and then I create a new HD1 program.

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:51 pm

Sorry Qui, i have to disagree with you for the first time here, i HAVE sampled
Omnisphere stuff thru ESC, and i mostly sample from Kontakt which is way
larger then Omnisphere, OS is nothing compared to some of Kontakt and Play
libraries, i mean sizewise...and i also sample a lot of Play stuff which is also
a monster in sizes compared to OS. I know of the Memory limitation in ESC
and i already wrote of that somewhere but i have a really strong PC System
and somehow i've managed to do that...And of course, on questions like this
lately i fail to respond properly...this is not a small question, you need at
least basic knowledge of sampling just to understand someones answer.

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:52 pm

AntonySharmman wrote:A very strong PC station can handle anything ,like mine that can handle
omnisphere at 8 individual interfaces , but is i7 4X4 GHz and 32 Gb Ram DDR3.

True !

i have a comparable computer setup, but 8 instances seems not that much for your specs, do you still use the 32 bit version?

i've upgraded to the 64 bits version of omnisphere and did a vst stress test in cubase with omnisphere, after loading 20 instances of omnisphere with 4 sounds each i still only used 60 percent cpu, i could never reach these amounds of instances when using 32 bits. It's really worth to upgrade your system to 64 bits.

Or maybe i did understand you wrong ?

AntonySharmman · Post by **AntonySharmman** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:52 pm

Yes exactly that I mean ...
Out of subject but just for fun 20 instances of omnisphere is true that occupy
27 % of my extreme i7 CpU and Win7 & 32 b with modified Kernel and precisely tuned
to run every production sofrtware or Vsti of last 15 years , since I'm engineer !
Also don't mess with my beast ,otherwise try 10 instances of latest Ibory ...

Post by **Sharp** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:02 pm

Omnisphere runs fine under ESC. Its a subject that came up over on Harmony Central at one point.

ESC can re-sample any VSTi and any duration like 40sec/sample
but your PC/Mac can't for many reasons and weaknesses of moderate systems.

Not sure what your saying here, but if your trying to say ESC can't create big samples if your system resources are not up to the task, then I have to say that this is not true.

ESC only loads the data to RAM when you have “AU” ticked. So unless you have 0MB of hard disk space, you can create and work on samples WAYYYY bigger than the amount of RAM you have in your PC.

Regards
Sharp.

AntonySharmman · Post by **AntonySharmman** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:24 am

ESC can handle any heavy task but the equivalent equipment is needed to carry out these
tasks, like 88 samples of 40 sec duration at multi-velocity layers.
I never face such issues, since I can resolve any of them , but my mates ask me frequently
for this and similar issues and always the cause is their equipment.

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:12 am

BasariStudios wrote:Sorry Qui, i have to disagree with you for the first time here, i HAVE sampled
Omnisphere stuff thru ESC, and i mostly sample from Kontakt which is way
larger then Omnisphere, OS is nothing compared to some of Kontakt and Play
libraries, i mean sizewise...and i also sample a lot of Play stuff which is also
a monster in sizes compared to OS. I know of the Memory limitation in ESC
and i already wrote of that somewhere but i have a really strong PC System
and somehow i've managed to do that..

No problem basaristudios, i'm glad that you disagree

kontakt works at my system, but omnisphere doesn't. That got me thinking, did you use the 32 or 64 bit omnisphere VST dll for sampling the sounds?

I only use the 64 bit versions, so maybe that's the problem with ESC at my place?

Post by **Sharp** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:24 am

Hi QuiRobinez.

I only use the 64 bit versions, so maybe that's the problem with ESC at my place?

Absolutely. ESC does not run 64bit VSTi's at all. You must run them as 32bit in order to sample them.

Regards
Sharp

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:30 am

Sharp wrote:Hi QuiRobinez.

I only use the 64 bit versions, so maybe that's the problem with ESC at my place?
Absolutely. ESC does not run 64bit VSTi's at all. You must run them as 32bit in order to sample them.

Regards
Sharp

thnx!

I will install the 32 bit DLL as well then. I didn't know this but it explains a lot

Post by **Sharp** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:34 am

Hi AntonySharmman

AntonySharmman wrote:ESC can handle any heavy task but the equivalent equipment is needed to carry out these
tasks, like 88 samples of 40 sec duration at multi-velocity layers.
I never face such issues, since I can resolve any of them , but my mates ask me frequently
for this and similar issues and always the cause is their equipment.

The number of samples, length and layers make no difference as this data does not get loaded to RAM unless you have UA ticked.

The only load placed on your PC during the process of sampling is only what it takes to run the VSTi and play one single note at a time. If someone's PC can't manage this, they really shouldn't have even purchased the VSTi in the first place for such a slow PC because they never had a chance in running it at all, ever.

Regards
Sharp.