Advice requested Korg/Kronos veterans (in message please)

[cwall1108]

I'm at a fork in the road. There's a lot to love about the Kronos, but after two weeks of trying to live with it - double strike. It's not just me, like I thought it was. I can replicate the issue and it matches youtube etc. The serial for my 88 is sub 3600 etc. (strange since I just bought it, how long was it collecting dust?)

ANYHOW, here's my beef. I just blew more money than I should on a system that was a bummer out the door. From what I've seen in the forums the past two weeks, Korg's handling has been... lacking. This is a repeat of an experience I had with a QS7 way back... multiple returns... project delays etc.

So, I don't want to start a flame war or any of that, but in a private message I'd like to hear some even-headed responses with your feelings about Korg in general. I can certainly get a refund and live with my QS8 for now and my software synths - I don't want to, but my mouth is full of the taste of severe disappointment. So basically: Is it worth it? Is Korg normally a better company? If so, I'm going to ask for a replacement rather than a repair since its a new purchase, else the retailer can cram it and give me my money back.

Thanks in advance for keeping things cool on the board - I really don't want to be ground zero for a firefight

[MartinHines]

I am not clear by your message what type of problem you are having.

If you think there is something wrong -- i.e. defective, then definitely either contact your dealer or call Korg Product Support.

You can go to the Korg.com website and find a Korg authorized repair center. As long as you registered your product online you have a two year warranty.

[cwall1108]

The problem is the double strike/trigger keybed problem. The request really was for evenhanded opinions on whether Korg was worth sticking with or if I should save myself the trouble.

I understand the repair, warranty and RMA process a little too well and have previously had some serious frustration. From what I've seen in this forum, I am concerned that Korg might disappoint, but I also know Internet forums are a great place to be.... dramatic.

So, looking for PMs of honest experiences with korg and Kronos to get a feel for "is it worth it"?

[BobTheDog]

If you have problems and it us only 2 weeks old get your dealer to replace it and ask for one with the new keybed.

[RKfan]

Get it changed - but stick with it - the Kronos really is better than anything else out there in terms of sound, flexibility (synth engines), capacity (with a big secondary drive). I have had mine now for 10 months and can't put it down - love the thing.

But, you do need to get one that isnt faulty and that's a case of going back to the dealer.

Best of luck!

[cwall1108]

Appreciate the input - the overwhelming response is the Kronos is worth it even if there's bumps in the road.

Now if we can get Guitar Center to do the right thing... hopefully they have another in stock and I don't have to wait. There's about 20 ideas that got fired off the first day I had the thing and I'd hate to lose that momentum!

Off to GC in a bit and we'll see how things go.

Thanks again,

[ronnfigg]

Is this your first Korg product? If so, you are going to have an extreme learning curve. Start with the Basic manual, then go to the Operations Guide and DO the procedures. Reading the manual away from the keyboard is not nearly as rewarding as being in front of it and going through the motions. I hope you can resolve your issues. The Kronos is probably THE most advanced workstation on the market. It's for POWER users. If you are ultimately unhappy with the Kronos and need something a little simpler, check out the brand new Krome. It's a scaled down board with a wealth of Kronos-like features (but not all) and some nice aspects in the user interface.

[cwall1108]

Defective product, not defective head. At least as far as I know.

[popmann]

It's my first Korg product in 25 years of synth/key buying. For the reason I'm going to advise: they've broken the mold. They've stepped embedded systems into the land of tech that made me HAVE to use software in the studio for the last decade.

I have never liked Korg keys. Since the M1, at least. They went down the road of synth sounds at the expense of lousy emulation. Which isn't worse...it's just not my bag. I need the best Rhodes/Wurly/Grand/strings/drums...etc...and until the Kronos, they never were even second place. Or third. With the exception of the nice dedicated cx/bx3--but, I'm talking in their workstations.

I didn't even pay attention when the Kronos was released...again, see history of Korg and my needs. Then I was lamenting that with emulation tech being relatively mature now (for vintage keyboard instruments at least) -why did no one offer a simple "best of keys"--spot on Rhodes and Wurli and Hammond and disk streaming pianos and Wavetable to sample based synthesis married to a nice feeling 88 keybed. And the person I'm talking to says "sounds like you're describing the new Kronos"...and I looked and went..."yeah...but...it's Korg-how good can it be?"

And then I played it.

And then I bought it.

And I love it.

Just the other night, I was going through some software pianos and samples to see if there were any old faves I might want to bring over...and even playing at 64 samples...f'n Kontakt--tangible disconnect between fingers and sound.

Anyway...there is no alternative in hardware. None. Meaning no equivalent sound. Or close. Promise...I played every new Roland/Yammy/Kurz/Nord board released...HOPING...hoping that I could retire this mushy feeling uninspiring software.

So, I've also not had most of the reported issues. I have gotten a clunky key as of late that troubles me...but, the local repair shop said Korg has sent all new keybeds for anyone having issues...promptly...even when the issues were so subtle he couldn't reproduce them in the shop.

I would just return it and get another one. It's not like you have a choice to return it and get something else. I mean, you obviously HAVE that choice...but, not if vintage key emulation is your bag. If its not...and you just need a cool "synth"--there may be viable competition--I don't pretend to know jack about creative synthesis and that kind of sound design.

[Saxifraga]

I sometimes wonder if most people, even piano players, would be able to distinguish a real piano from modern sampled piano. At least as long as it is played over some kind of PA or earplugs.
Maybe somebody could build a fake piano with loudspeakers inside that play samples instead of real strings and we could test the ability to discern both.

I write this because there was a double blind study with Stradivaris against modern Violins. I think in a BBC article in June. No one was really able to distinguish both and most liked the modern instrumnts more.
From the des of physics I have to say: No ear is even able to discern a good MP3 from a the original wav sample. So would be the case I think with a Kronos and real Piano or B3.

So the love for real analog instruments is more a kind of 'back to the roots' hype. Of course the analog buttons and knobs of a real synth are really better then convoluted menus.

[BobTheDog]

It is very easy to tell the difference between mp3 and pcm!

[Saxifraga]

It is very easy to tell the difference between mp3 and pcm!

Because of the file ending?

At what bitrate do you think you can discern a MP3 from a wav?

Of course you can hear the difference between an analog synth and a digital one if you turn the knobs while playing. But if you only have a sound evolving with a filter and amplitude envelope, no one can hear the difference.

At least in our physics department we were pretty sure of that.

[BobTheDog]

Any bitrate, there are fairly simple things to listen for.

[popmann]

Oh, that's talk of a not pianist.

There's nothing even similar to the experience. That said, you likely mean a recorded piano versus a modern sample...where it comes down to how good the pianist is...and specifically how they use various capabilities to make it "speak".

Feel free to post any clip you wish...SaraBareillies live...I'll tell you whether it's a night they rented a C7 or he used her Motif.

But, that's not the point. I had this discussion recently about comparing a hardwired, tube guitar amp to a new digital model. You can compare the RECORDED end resulting tone. That's ONE comparison, but not at all the only relevant comparison. Even if it sounds spot perfect (and it doesn't, but let's say does)--if you've ever been playing a great tube amp in a room, and recorded it, you know it's like a shadow of the power and warmth of the actual sound. So, you can put the modeller through speakers and it sounds nothing like the real amp. Because its modelled to sound like one recorded. And then it doesn't behave like the real deal in reasoning to different guitars...and volume and tone adjustments...

Anyway, this all relates. Which isn't to mean there's no point. There are cost consideration...trouble (mostly live)...

But, fail if you want to actually compare sitting at a Kronos (great as it is) to the Steinway they used to create the sample...or even my relatively lowly upright grand. Which brings me to the other part...

Ten pianist playing the same sample...versus ten playing their own (or different studios' pianos) in different rooms produces a difference that makes the difference in players sounds exponential. and you could easily objectively say the Kronos or Alicia's Keys sounds "better" than my upright--by measures of string balance and stereo phase, etc...it's a completely different instrument. A PART that's appropriate on the real piano doesn't necessarily come off well on the sample...and visa versa. What ends up on my recordings has a LOT to do with what instrument the part was conceived on.

...if you can't tell a cx3 (or other emulation) from the RECORDED Hammond, you might need some experience. Now, if you're putting both through a Leslie and recording them...close enough. The organ isn't the hard part to emulate...the Leslie, though, is a living, breathing component that will NEVER be emulated. While the stereo recording of it will inch closer...never will it, or can it emulate being in the room where the beast is spinning.

[Ojustaboo]

The serial for my 88 is sub 3600 etc. (strange since I just bought it, how long was it collecting dust?)

I picked up my new 88 note Kronos today.

It was delivered to the shop from Korg this morning.

Serial is 2865

I contacted Korg before they sent it out and they assured me their current stock all had the upgraded keyboard contacts.

So either they are lying, or serial numbers lower than 3600 have the newer keybed. (so far it plays perfectly)