Kronos Editor 2.0 - Feedbacks

[chickeneps]

Isn't there, or shouldn't there be, a communication line between users and Korg/SoundQuest?

I liked Ojustaboo's post here with all the screenshots. Good feedback with news SQ could use. I liked the workflow observations, that's Job #1 for an editor.

It's the softwares job to be problem-free. Period. And no excuses. But if there are some issues, I would hope there would be a direct line of communication where specific issues could be worked out ASAP, like within a day even. Software isn't static and anything can be fixed or addressed.

Something like reports@soundquest.com or www.soundquest.com/reports. Take care of it, deal with it - we have an editor everyone likes.

[ed_f]

ed_f

Have you run the Stand Alone editor before using the plugin editor?

Yes and I had the V1 editor working just fine with the exact same setup before upgrading OS on my Kronos.

[ed_f]

Sorry but can't be a 10.7.5 bug - my studio mac is 10.6.8 and of all the plugins I have installed paid and free - this is the only one to fail. Literally the ONLY one. I have never seen this error before.

So what you're saying is that the Apple engineer who admitted that there is a problem and showed the code segment where the problem is located is wrong. The bug doesn't affect all plug-ins but it does affect Kronos' on 10.7.5. Run 10.7.4 and you'll find that it is fine.

I think, more likely, he is experiencing a different issue. Ed, I tested on 10.6.8, and it validates fine for me. So, you probably have something going on on your end causing the issue.

Thanks for actually reading my OS version and your post. I agree it does not seem to be the Apple problem - may not be soundquest problem either. I do know nothing changed on my system since V1 and V2 except this one didn't work.

Interestingly -while I didnt jump into the fray - I am somebody who thinks the editor is useful. Not perfect, a lot I would change. But I can see more information in some of the drop down menus, it it on my monitor (no need to for tilt screen) easier to type - lots of reasons I think it is worth happening. But this was a surprise to me - the first one installed perfectly and worked "fine" until V2 of of the OS.

[levioter]

ed_f did you try to update the korg usb device drvier ? It seems it is mandatory !

Cheers

[SoundQuest]

If the plug-in is still failing to validate, can you get us a full copy of what is being reported. The information that we are seeing here doesn't actually show anything but "FAIL" which obviously isn't helpful.

[SoundQuest]

Garth, we are reading ALL of the editor related topics and making note of the considered suggestions and feedback. That doesn't necessarily mean that we are able to provide immediate feedback or commentary on them.

[Corgy]

For me it seems that all the modulation functions are distribution around all the tabs and you have to know where to search if you want quickly to change the one or the other modulation.

That's because, unlike other synths, KRONOS modulation source/destinations are TOO many combinations. There is no single modulation matrix page, like on some synths, like 4 sources into 4 desitnations. On KRONOS almost everything can be modulation by almost anything.

I think the Editor is doing a great job in keeping all these parameters organized. Don't compare it to the single page editors of software VSTis. There are just too many parameters.

I do not agree with "too many". It's just a question of organizing all of them in a better way. There is so much more space on a Mac or PC display for the external editor. The external editor is not required to copy the on-board GUI one by one. There is so much more freedom and less limitation. Just use it.

Have you ever worked with SynthMaster from KV331? I did not count the modulation sources of the Kronos, but SynthMaster might even have more modulation capability than the Kronos with all it's 9 generators. On there web-site they say it's more than 650 modulation targets.

But it is so easy to get the hang on it. It's just about better organizing all of them. What most of the modern soft-synt GUIs do is that they show in a matrix or a list only those modulation sources and targets you are actually using.

There is really no need from a software and GUI point of view to clutter - ok may be it's only me - almost every inch of the external display with unused modulation information. I have no complete overview about the needs but sometimes learning from professional sound designers made me beeing impressed about the few modulation sources and targets they used to generate great soundscapes.

Sometimes less is more - and better organizing helps to generate efficiency.

[shorty]

I have sold my Kronos 61. It was good while it lasted but i felt a bit cheated.
The build quality was to be quite frank, a bit rubbish. It reminded me of my first keyboard 25 years ago, a casio at the time that was fine but a few years later and several thousand dollars more the same feel.
I will never ever be taken again by flash demos promises that are never kept and edorsements by lame musos, yes you, you knw who you are who turs up on youtube doing a new demo showing us what your new freinds are demoi ing and why you need to buy this rudass keyboard.
From now on i am going to stick to my trusted access and waldorf synths.
I have done the moog and dave smith thing and got theese awesome synths out of my system due to the dodgy software that promised the earth, the same people who do kronos
Can you see a pattern forming.
This is my first and last post, you guys on the forum have been awesome and i truely miss the buzz, but for me it is time to move on. Thankyou all.

[Ojustaboo]

I have sold my Kronos 61. It was good while it lasted but i felt a bit cheated.
The build quality was to be quite frank, a bit rubbish. It reminded me of my first keyboard 25 years ago, a casio at the time that was fine but a few years later and several thousand dollars more the same feel.
I will never ever be taken again by flash demos promises that are never kept and edorsements by lame musos, yes you, you knw who you are who turs up on youtube doing a new demo showing us what your new freinds are demoi ing and why you need to buy this rudass keyboard.
From now on i am going to stick to my trusted access and waldorf synths.
I have done the moog and dave smith thing and got theese awesome synths out of my system due to the dodgy software that promised the earth, the same people who do kronos
Can you see a pattern forming.
This is my first and last post, you guys on the forum have been awesome and i truely miss the buzz, but for me it is time to move on. Thankyou all.

Sorry, I think you are totally wrong.

You post your first post in this forum spouting what isn't an opinion, its complete rubbish.

I have been VERY vocal about the things on the Kronos that I believe could be done better, I have also been VERY vocal on the way Korg communicates with its customers, in other words I am far from a Korg fanboy.

I have zero brand loyalty and I think companies such as Roland also produce superb machines.

But I wonder if you actually owned a Kronos at all.

I purchased my Kronos 88 a couple of weeks ago and after reading the many build quality comments on here, I was wondering how I would find it.

As I put in another thread, I was pleasantly surprised with how superior the quality feels. The one thing build quality that could be better is the front metal bar that needs the spacers in when transporting. Everything else both looks and feels to be a superb quality.

People may have various issues with Korg and the Kronos, but to compare its build quality with a 25 year old Casio, is in my opinion trolling.

My first synth was a korg micro preset, then my first polyphonic instrument was a Casio 1000p (all I could afford at the time), that was 30 years ago. I then got a Juno 106, then a second hand korg trident, over the years a Roland D50, D70, Ensoniq SQ80 before kids came along, career took off and I had a 12 year break from music.

I can honestly say I have owned just two synths that simply ooze quality, just looking at them, they look expensive. My Roland D70 and my Korg Kronos.

Actually using the machine, using the knobs, buttons, sliders, the Kronos feels better (but in fairness I haven't had the D70 for 13 years).

If someone wants to moan about the lack of a 64bit daw plugin for the Kronos, then I'm with them 100%.

If someone wants to moan that they shouldn't have to use cardboard spacers to transport a 3k synth, again I'm with them 100%

If someone wants to say that the way Korg chooses to communicate with its customers and the damage it does to their image from a PR point of view, again I'm with them 100%

If someone wants to say how much better the stand alone editor could be, again I'm with them 100%

But when someone posts their first post comparing the Kronos to a 25 year old Casio, then sorry, I'm not usually rude to people, but you are simply being an idiot.

[Saxifraga]

...

The editor is somehow organized like a phone book - complete in a logical order but not supporting my workflow. There is too much switching between the tabs to do tasks I am used to do on larger screens without changing the content of the display. An external editor could make use of the available display area and also provide for some kind of modulation matrix or modulation list, showing at a glance, which modulator is effecting what parameter. For me it seems that all the modulation functions are distribution around all the tabs and you have to know where to search if you want quickly to change the one or the other modulation.

Ho ho! That´s exactly my criticism (TM ) of Korg and SoundQuest. They think in terms of 1980..1999 data driven architecture. It´s irrelevant to guide the user and make the synth transparent to use. They hide the flow below a surface of confusing parameters like some scientific instrument.
Of course some of the pages try to do it better like the IFX/MFX pages.
There is so much screen estate and they use it to show more .. parameters!

Korg: Sound = superb, UI = suxs, Editor = inferior copy of Kronos UI

Even my Kawai K4 Editor from 1989 running inside an Atari VM has a better workflow and templates for sounds and filter settings! And it´s only some 150kByte!

[jimknopf]

@shorty
This gets a bit weird: selling three great synths because someone doesn't get by with their editors. LOL
There are also errors about basic facts in what you write:
The Dave Smith and Moog editors are made by Soundtower, and mine for the Voyager is working fine. The Kronos editor is done by Soundquest: so no pattern possible.

64bit support for the Kronos editor is a must, no matter which way. Many music systems use 64bit OS, among others to have access to more than 3.25 Gb memory for obvious reasons (big sample libraries etc.). If you don't provide a working 64 bit solution, the editor/plugin will simply not be available in many, many recording environments, from home studios to professional recording. JBridge is no solution, and most users will not want to run a 32bit version of their seuqencers just to get the Kronos plugin with its very limited functionality on board. So you more or less kick yourself out of the game, if you leave it at that.

Concerning the GUI decision not to sue the editor for better overview and keep the structure with many Kronos subpages, maybe Korg was anxious to confuse users with another design. But if so, they paid a high price for that, reducing the editor usability to that of the small Kronos screen. Even IF they keet the old structure as default, there should be optional bigger editing subpages collecting the info of several subpages for better overview.

We should be aware that these problems mirror the complexity of the Kronos to a certain degree, and it is no simple task to create editor and plugin with high usability. As it is now, the usability is still significantly below normal user expectations, with 64bit use excluded. All in all, that looks like too little too late, after ~ 15 months with the Kronos. Still I am convinced that constructive criticism will change more, than blind anger can.

[Corgy]

...

The editor is somehow organized like a phone book - complete in a logical order but not supporting my workflow. There is too much switching between the tabs to do tasks I am used to do on larger screens without changing the content of the display. An external editor could make use of the available display area and also provide for some kind of modulation matrix or modulation list, showing at a glance, which modulator is effecting what parameter. For me it seems that all the modulation functions are distribution around all the tabs and you have to know where to search if you want quickly to change the one or the other modulation.

Ho ho! That´s exactly my criticism (TM ) of Korg and SoundQuest. They think in terms of 1980..1999 data driven architecture. It´s irrelevant to guide the user and make the synth transparent to use. They hide the flow below a surface of confusing parameters like some scientific instrument.
Of course some of the pages try to do it better like the IFX/MFX pages.
There is so much screen estate and they use it to show more .. parameters!

Korg: Sound = superb, UI = suxs, Editor = inferior copy of Kronos UI

Even my Kawai K4 Editor from 1989 running inside an Atari VM has a better workflow and templates for sounds and filter settings! And it´s only some 150kByte!

Sorry Saxifraga

no intention to steal from you - just new kid on the block - so at least there is two of us ...

[cobi]

It's a shame, that Korg makes it so easy for complainers and others who are interested in presenting the Kronos in an unflattering light.

If I were the marketing manager of Korg it would give me sleepless nights.

It seems that it would have been even better offering no editor at all than one that provides such a big target for the complainers, trolls and everyone who is interested in casting a poor light on the Kronos as whole.

Please do not mistake me. I don't say that everybody who complains is a troll. The complaints with regard to the editor are absolutely justified.

I only wonder how it can be that a major company like Korg seems to be unable to advertise an absolutely great instrument like the Kronos in better and more professional way.

IMHO delivering such a poor piece of software is an absolutely unnecessary fiasco which maybe can damage the reputation of this great instrument. Very sad!

cobi

[Corgy]

It's a shame, that Korg makes it so easy for complainers and others who are interested in presenting the Kronos in an unflattering light.

If I were the marketing manager of Korg it would give me sleepless nights.

It seems that it would have been even better offering no editor at all than one that provides such a big target for the complainers, trolls and everyone who is interested in casting a poor light on the Kronos as whole.

Please do not mistake me. I don't say that everybody who complains is a troll. The complaints with regard to the editor are absolutely justified.

I only wonder how it can be that a major company like Korg seems to be unable to advertise an absolutely great instrument like the Kronos in better and more professional way.

IMHO delivering such a poor piece of software is an absolutely unnecessary fiasco which maybe can damage the reputation of this great instrument. Very sad!

cobi

May I offer my theory?

Comparing the analogue sound of the Polysix and the M20 to other soft-synths claiming to be "analogue" and checking out the sound quality versus processor load ... well ... those Korg engineers have done an incredible job - lots of kudos there - lots!

When my (very) small audience listens to these full and warm sounds everybody says - incredible - such a depth and digital?. You have to love your product and take engineering very serious to generate this kind of performance and coherence in such a complex instrument.

But then Korg made the mistake to source out the editor to a vendor, which simply has tried just to finish a payed job. And that makes a difference.

[neomad]

For that reason I'm not asking for a Korg 'mea culpa' but for a new editor from someone else.

Everybody can have mistakes, and I really do not mind if Korg comes back to us saying: 'soundquest made a great job but no adapted to premium WS customers needs. Then, we will try another solution to keep our customer satisfied keeping the Kronos on top, as a real game changer'

I can wait another 6 months. I can pay 100 EUR for a real useful editor...
But at time being, I'll not spent my time anymore with soundquest product, at all.

PS: by the way, Korg can also review sequencer features just copying krome/m3's one.