Does the Kronos sound 'papery' to you?

[X-Trade]

Very subjective, I admit, but I can't help but shake this feeling of 'paperyness' when I play the Kronos.

Perhaps it is the sharply-cut feel of the black notes, or the slightly burnt-in new electronic smell that the fan wafts out of the small openings still when I play it, but I always come away from it reminded of the experience of opening a new pack of paper for a laser printer.

But there's more to it than that; I really struggle to get a 'soft' sound from the Kronos. Everything sounds very crisp and precise. Maybe because I use a lot of distortions in my sounds and these seem to be quite weak on the Kronos? Or I'm approaching it from the wrong direction. Or maybe it just isn't suited to my sounds.

But even the Solina samples, I've tried to turn into a pad, and it doesn't sound right.

The Decimator was one of my favourite effects in every other keyboard but I think the enhanced headroom in the Kronos causes this to suffer because you don't get the same mapping of resolutions without really driving the input. Ideally the bit-resolution waveshaper should have a depth control or input trim (not just output).

I really love it in terms of the parameters and options it gives me, but it never quite delivers on the sound front. It's not aggressive enough. Sometimes I find myself secretly wishing I had bought a 2nd Radias, or perhaps an Arturia Origin..
Some of you may have noticed that (aside from experiencing several prolonged periods of deafness), I have yet to produce a single recording with the Kronos..


I'm kindof at a loss to describe or understand precisely what it is that stands in the way of getting the sounds I need out of the Kronos..


This is what I was able to achieve with the Radias and have been unable to touch on the Kronos:
http://soundcloud.com/patternbeyondrandom/ff-demo
Note that 90% of what you hear is from one patch on the Radias. There is some guitar but I often tell people there is no guitar in this recording because it is fairly quiet and panned to one side. The Radias really does the bulk of the sound.

[RlaRed]

I think the Kronos sounds awesome. Cant you get a warm sound from AL1 or Polysix?

[GregC]

Very subjective, I admit, but I can't help but shake this feeling of 'paperyness' when I play the Kronos.

Perhaps it is the sharply-cut feel of the black notes, or the slightly burnt-in new electronic smell that the fan wafts out of the small openings still when I play it, but I always come away from it reminded of the experience of opening a new pack of paper for a laser printer.

But there's more to it than that; I really struggle to get a 'soft' sound from the Kronos. Everything sounds very crisp and precise. Maybe because I use a lot of distortions in my sounds and these seem to be quite weak on the Kronos? Or I'm approaching it from the wrong direction. Or maybe it just isn't suited to my sounds.

But even the Solina samples, I've tried to turn into a pad, and it doesn't sound right.

The Decimator was one of my favourite effects in every other keyboard but I think the enhanced headroom in the Kronos causes this to suffer because you don't get the same mapping of resolutions without really driving the input. Ideally the bit-resolution waveshaper should have a depth control or input trim (not just output).

I really love it in terms of the parameters and options it gives me, but it never quite delivers on the sound front. It's not aggressive enough. Sometimes I find myself secretly wishing I had bought a 2nd Radias, or perhaps an Arturia Origin..
Some of you may have noticed that (aside from experiencing several prolonged periods of deafness), I have yet to produce a single recording with the Kronos..

I'm kindof at a loss to describe or understand precisely what it is that stands in the way of getting the sounds I need out of the Kronos..

This is what I was able to achieve with the Radias and have been unable to touch on the Kronos:
http://soundcloud.com/patternbeyondrandom/ff-demo
Note that 90% of what you hear is from one patch on the Radias. There is some guitar but I often tell people there is no guitar in this recording because it is fairly quiet and panned to one side. The Radias really does the bulk of the sound.

I don' t ' get ' the recording. It is over driven and I sense it's to match a NIN vibe. Basari has had some success with managing distortion on his Kronos

[synthguy]

Hmm... I don't know. Well, it's true that the Radias is a different sound engine and does a few things AL-1 won't, which is why mine is staying. People remark about how the different generations of Virus all sound different.

But unable to get a juicy gronking thudding sound out of the Kronos... I don't know, i'd think it should be able to do anything. My M3 could do a lot of that, and the effects and synth engine in the K are far better. Then again, industrial techno whatever isn't my forte, so undoubtedly someone else would be far more qualified to comment.

I will have to say that getting an Origin is about as no-brainer as it gets. Make classic vintage synths in it, build Frankensynths out of anything and everything... it and the JP-80 seem to me to be the perfect partners with the Kronos. Virus and Voyager probly too. I could be wrong, but with those five synths, I don't know what you couldn't do.

[Scatter]

I agree, theres something about the overall character of the Kronos sound that I find objectionable. It doesn't always bother me but sometimes when programming sounds it feels like I'm fighting against the innate sound of the workstation itself.

[Warman309]

Finally someone feels the same as I do

I too feel that the Kronos sounds too "precise", sometimes can be a bit harsh.

I also agree with X-trade on the feel on the black notes of the keyboard, the smell, too.

While I agree that Kronos still a great sounding synth/workstation, sometimes I still have to turn to its competitors for the sounds that are closer to my expectation.

For the recent project, I had to fire up the Fantom G for some kind of smoother strings, which I don't find much in the Kronos.

Programming may be a debate at this stage, but since we are talking characteristics here, so spare me with ideas of better programming and such

[neomad]

I think the Kronos sounds awesome. Cant you get a warm sound from AL1 or Polysix?

+1

[Low Class]

I've only had my Kronos 88 a few days and almost immediately noticed the lack of depth in the sound compared to my Kurz PC3K8. As mentioned, it sounds too precise. It does sound great and is a joy to play once you let your ears get passed it, but I have considered sending it back and probably won't because I got such a killer deal on it.

[SanderXpander]

I roll most of my own patches (except the natural instruments, I guess) and the Kronos has been the most rewarding keyboard I've ever had in that respect. Having you tried just rolling off the highs gently, or having a very mild decimator as TFX? Sounds to me like you're looking for something that doesn't sound as hi-fi.

[cobi]

... to be honest, reading certain postings on this forum I am not shure if some of the contributions are really serious or only joking.

It seems to me that some people are searching desperately for a fault or a flaw of their Kronos's.

I am very! happy with mine and it sounds great. Otherwise I would not have bought it.

cobi

[jimknopf]

I've only had my Kronos 88 a few days and almost immediately noticed the lack of depth in the sound compared to my Kurz PC3K8. As mentioned, it sounds too precise. It does sound great and is a joy to play once you let your ears get passed it, but I have considered sending it back and probably won't because I got such a killer deal on it.

Really can't follow the basic message of the thread.

The Kurzweil for excample is still using the same well programmed, but very small looped 90s samples of the old Ks, which to me always sound like a muddy LoFi sound, compared to modern synths and especially the Kronos. I could never get used to that kind of sound.

With the Kronos, I get about any sound I want, as soon as I'm ready to leave the presets or tweak them to my liking. The one weak spot in the overall sound character are the overdrive/distortion effects: they sound much too cold, harsh and digital and spoil a lot of otherwise great sounding stuff as soon as you (have to) use them.

Concerning the presets in the Kronos (many in HD-1 from Oasys times), I am convinced that they need a serious overhaul to compete with the more "ready to go" made presets of Yamaha and Kurzweil, which are generally better programmed for instant band use IMO. I heard a lot of complaints about this from keyboarders who play a lot of cover band or top 40 stuff: they often just don't find immediately what they need in the Kronos and have to tweak a lot, more than they are used to on a Motif or Kurz.

So while I think the engines deliver about anything you could wish, I have much more trouble using patches as they are in the Kronos in band context.
- most sound to me as if aiming at the casual headphone listener in the shop in the first place, and as if not properly tested in band context
- many of them have much too much ear candy (much too high reverb, delay and other effect levels)
- while I like the pristine sound, I generally often wonder about EQ settings which raise the high range too much. That may pass by in home room level playing, but sounds dreadful with band amplification.

Bottom line:
- the basic Kronos engines' sound is about the best and most flexible synth sound I ever got. I really miss nothing here, only better overdrive/distortion. And the Kronos certainly doesn't sound thin or "papery" in any possible way to me, just the contrary: it belongs to the most powerful and pristine synth sounds I ever heard.
- the presets on the other hand should NOT stay as they are IMHO. Even if they stay in their old places for matters of compatibility, many of them should be reworked for loud band play, not drowning in effect settings and not killing your ears in the high range. And there should be more of the well known signature sounds for those who play cover music and top 40 stuff. Even if I don't need much of that in my projects, I know of many who miss that. Korg has to do some updating homework here, and it should not be left completely to third party sound packages.

[John Hendry]

the JP-80 seem to me to be the perfect partners with the Kronos.

For hardware I agree but might add the new Integra 7 with an Ipad too, and will never part with my JD800 or the clean sounding JD 990 with the expanded analog board triggered off it. I hope to learn to access it's true potintual at some time in the future, hopefully in this life time....

I have not kept up with the software side since Cakewalk 2.0 so cannot comment on any of it now but the more I listen to everyone talk and see how far the software side has progressed the more I say just "wait a little longer" and then look at it with the right equipment that includes a fast dedicated desktop computer, the VAX77 supporting cc88 as well as the kitchen sink, and a high end DAC just for the rush to be blown away.

I remember when I thought the M1 was my best board......and it was FOR ME. People would agree and say "that one" sounds the best. But in reality I spent the most time with it and could get more out of the few sounds I used on it. I think the Kronos can not only match that sound you like but surpass it IF you learn it better. I find it's so deep it takes much longer to do anything and when I could not find some basic stuff in less than 30 minutes RTM I said STM for lack of time and have been focusing on what I do know and having fun playing learning along the way...I know...RTFM but that takes time and I will do that when I can set aside the time needed and hang out with some people using it to go exploring.

"the slightly burnt-in new electronic smell that the fan wafts out of the small openings still when I play it"

LOL As long as it's not smoking I'd say enjoy it as that won't last long. IMO the more you use it the more you will like it as it will never complain about your own short comings dispite your knowledge. The Kronos is a monster capable of doing an amazing venue of sounds. Don't be in a hurry and don't give up on it just because your feelings are connected and deep rooted in another synth. Try another approach. I find the opposite to be true...hence the desire to add some more Roland gear (and a new sound system) to complement the Kronos. You might just have to go cold turkey and forget about the Radias for a while. My M1's never get turned on anymore after their "vacation" leaving me with the M50 luckily in my truck, and my favorite combi sounds quite "empty" to me now while other sounds in it I ignored sound far more inviting. It's rather strange how that happened, but it shows me it has to do with the tools we are used to using, not the Kronos. I honestly think users being able to communicate with the vast potintual of the current gear is the biggest challenge the manufactures have to overcome. Maybe they should complain;-)

John^^

[John Hendry]

I also agree with X-trade on the feel on the black notes of the keyboard, the smell, too.

You're kidding.....right?

John^^

[Ojustaboo]

... to be honest, reading certain postings on this forum I am not shure if some of the contributions are really serious or only joking.

It seems to me that some people are searching desperately for a fault or a flaw of their Kronos's.

I am very! happy with mine and it sounds great. Otherwise I would not have bought it.

cobi

So you think one of the moderators is trolling?

I'm extremely happy with mine. That doesn't mean his points aren't valid.

It might be great in many many areas, it might be the greatest hardware synth currently available in many areas, but that doesn't' mean it's the best in all areas and people should be allowed to express their opinions and debate various things without constantly being hounded and accused of trying to find fault.


With regards to the keyboard feel,

I know according to his sig he has the 61 note version, but as I've said in another recent thread, I've had two Kronos 88's this month after my first one was faulty, both had completely different keybeds, black notes on both had a completely different texture to one another and my current Kronos 88 has a keyboard that's 1000 times better than the original one I had, in feel, texture and the way the notes press and release (not talking about the contacts here either)

I said that had my original Kronos been fine and I'd gone to a friend or shop and played another Kronos with the keyboard my current Kronos had, I would be fuming as I would feel I have a much inferior keyboard.

I know this is subjective, everyone will like different keyboards but I stand by my earlier comment that in my opinion, many original Kronos owners who had the contacts replaced but kept the original keyboard, have inferior keyboards.

Whether the 61 has different versions I don't know, but the 88 definitely does.

[Vlad_77]

Very happy with the sound of this instrument and blown away by its possibilities. I haven't felt this about an instrument since I purchased a K2000 in 1992.

JimKnopf makes some valid points however about Kurzweil and Yamaha in terms of out of box gig ready sounds. I just picked up a Motif ES rack because I didn't have a Yamaha in my rig. I have to confess that I love the acoustic guitars on the Yamaha so much so that the price I paid for it was worth these guitars.

But .....

The beautiful thing about Kronos is that it can do everything that the Yamaha can do - albeit with a different character to the sound - and almost everything that a Kurzweil can do. Yep, I still feel that Kurzweil has some wonderful features that Kronos lacks. But all in all, I would argue that - especially with Yamaha - for me, there isn't a sense of deep exploration waiting for me as there is on Kronos and Kurzweil.

X-Trade, I wouldn't say that the Kronos sounds papery, but I do think you have nailed the notion of the precise nature of its sound. It seems to me though that such precision has always been associated with Korg at least since the M1.