Corporate level: invest more in Kronos or just the minimum?

Discussion relating to the Korg Kronos Workstation.

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neomad
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Post by neomad »

jazlover wrote: On this just forum every week KORG gets kicked in the teeth for that effort with constant whining, moaning and belly aching until the new editor is released. They are damned if they do... They are damned if they don't.
Hello: not really, not all the time. When Korg releases new 2.02 update and particularly VMT feature most of the people say thank you Korg. Even ''Dan at Korg'' was happy to see so positive feedback coming from users.

M3 sequencer history is different: Korg released a new workstation with such sequencer (Krome) and without update into Kronos one: a ‘’flagship’’ ‘’game changer’’ ‘’nec plus ultra’’ WS as Kronos with a less featured sequencer vs. a ‘cheap’ workstation with best korg hard sequencer ever! “

A word about editor: simply do not meet 21 century standards or expectations, nothing more, nothing less. DAW integration was promised and today is not really the case.
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Post by 1jordyzzz »

neomad wrote:
jazlover wrote: On this just forum every week KORG gets kicked in the teeth for that effort with constant whining, moaning and belly aching until the new editor is released. They are damned if they do... They are damned if they don't.
Hello: not really, not all the time. When Korg releases new 2.02 update and particularly VMT feature most of the people say thank you Korg. Even ''Dan at Korg'' was happy to see so positive feedback coming from users.

M3 sequencer history is different: Korg released a new workstation with such sequencer (Krome) and without update into Kronos one: a ‘’flagship’’ ‘’game changer’’ ‘’nec plus ultra’’ WS as Kronos with a less featured sequencer vs. a ‘cheap’ workstation with best korg hard sequencer ever! “

A word about editor: simply do not meet 21 century standards or expectations, nothing more, nothing less. DAW integration was promised and today is not really the case.
+1
this is what i've and most other people who whine about the sequencer talks about... on krome korg, said that the sequencer feature is what you'd expect on korg flagship workstation

the big question is, what's korg current flagship workstation??

KRONOS

who has the flagship sequencer??

KROME

wait a minute, sequencer feature on krome is claimed by korg to be expected on korg flagship?? what's korg flagship now??? KRONOS or KROME??

but anyway, thanks (again) to korg for making user sample streaming available :D
Love my kronos 88 :D
Love my yamaha psr s910 as well

Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha PSR s910, Korg C720, Yamaha DTX 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, a pair of Yamaha HS80 in (soon not to be) an unproperly treated room..
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Ojustaboo
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Post by Ojustaboo »

BobTheDog wrote:
GregC wrote:It's non productive to gripe, bellyache ad nauseum, navel gaze for a year,etc. Same stuff , different day.

Most are happy, have adapted, and have moved on. There is a great deal to enjoy and to create with what we have.

It's a simple concept and applies to all complex purchasers by customers.
Unfortunately I think some people enjoy this whining over actually seeing the good points and just using the tool as it is, internet forums have a lot to answer for!
Nothing to do with Internet forums.

In business or politics a person can do 1000 things right that benefit the consumer/country but be forced to resign over something quite small in comparison. If you screw up, the years of good work is rarely taken into consideration at all.

If you really think people are spending their time complaining on here for the sake of it then I don't really don't know how to respond to that.

I have seen few complaints that haven't been valid concerns.

I love my Kronos, best synth I've ever owned. I have had nothing but great first class service from korg uk.

I appreciate the free time and help the likes of dan give to this forum.

But I loath the way korg as a whole chooses to do business in 2012 and it doesn't matter how great the Kronos is, the way they keep their customers in the dark, being totally silent about complaints, is only doing them long term damage in my opinion.

Unfortunately, I think some people enjoy this korg can do no wrong attitude
over actually seeing the validility of the numerous people that have had enough. Internet forums have a lot to answer for.
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BobTheDog
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Post by BobTheDog »

I disagree with you but I see no point going any further with it.

At least you like the Kronos anyway, could be worse couldn't it.
GregC
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Post by GregC »

Ojustaboo wrote:
BobTheDog wrote:
GregC wrote:It's non productive to gripe, bellyache ad nauseum, navel gaze for a year,etc. Same stuff , different day.

Most are happy, have adapted, and have moved on. There is a great deal to enjoy and to create with what we have.

It's a simple concept and applies to all complex purchasers by customers.
Unfortunately I think some people enjoy this whining over actually seeing the good points and just using the tool as it is, internet forums have a lot to answer for!
Nothing to do with Internet forums.

In business or politics a person can do 1000 things right that benefit the consumer/country but be forced to resign over something quite small in comparison. If you screw up, the years of good work is rarely taken into consideration at all.

If you really think people are spending their time complaining on here for the sake of it then I don't really don't know how to respond to that.

I have seen few complaints that haven't been valid concerns.

I love my Kronos, best synth I've ever owned. I have had nothing but great first class service from korg uk.

I appreciate the free time and help the likes of dan give to this forum.

But I loath the way korg as a whole chooses to do business in 2012 and it doesn't matter how great the Kronos is, the way they keep their customers in the dark, being totally silent about complaints, is only doing them long term damage in my opinion.

Unfortunately, I think some people enjoy this korg can do no wrong attitude
over actually seeing the validility of the numerous people that have had enough. Internet forums have a lot to answer for.
I understand you have a love/hate relationship with Korg. Its not a conspiracy theory that they don't personally address all your complaints on the Internet.

I hope you get past it.
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neomad
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Post by neomad »

BobTheDog wrote:I disagree with you but I see no point going any further with it.

At least you like the Kronos anyway, could be worse couldn't it.
Personally, the Kronos is the best machine I've own ever (more than 40 synths last 20 years). And of course, I love it.

But it's almost the same with everybody's wife: we do love her but we still ask perfection ;)

I trust Korg will not abandon Kronos like that because potential is still huge!
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Post by GregC »

neomad wrote:
BobTheDog wrote:I disagree with you but I see no point going any further with it.

At least you like the Kronos anyway, could be worse couldn't it.
Personally, the Kronos is the best machine I've own ever (more than 40 synths last 20 years). And of course, I love it.

But it's almost the same with everybody's wife: we do love her but we still ask perfection ;)

I trust Korg will not abandon Kronos like that because potential is still huge!
I believe the amount of Kronos sales has proven that the $3k - $4k workstation is a viable market.

With that, I would think we will see an even better Korg workstation by January
2014.

And perhaps , Yamaha will jump on the bandwagon and do something significant sooner.
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neomad
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Post by neomad »

GregC wrote:
neomad wrote:
BobTheDog wrote:I disagree with you but I see no point going any further with it.

At least you like the Kronos anyway, could be worse couldn't it.
Personally, the Kronos is the best machine I've own ever (more than 40 synths last 20 years). And of course, I love it.

But it's almost the same with everybody's wife: we do love her but we still ask perfection ;)

I trust Korg will not abandon Kronos like that because potential is still huge!
I believe the amount of Kronos sales has proven that the $3k - $4k workstation is a viable market.

With that, I would think we will see an even better Korg workstation by January
2014.

And perhaps , Yamaha will jump on the bandwagon and do something significant sooner.
Hope not. 2014 is very close, only 14 months from now.

IMHO, instead, I do prefer a super-polished Kronos getting more an more features putting it on top of sales list, keeping it 'alive' at least 4 years.

However, I must admit that Korg do not apply same strategy than Access (Virus Ti 2005, Virus Ti2 2009) :(
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Davidb
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Post by Davidb »

Randelph wrote:
Korg seems to be going more of a Casio route, investing primarily in the lower cost end of the market. Which is why their reluctance to spend more money on the Kronos and get basics like the M3 sequencer features, an excellent Editor/Sample manager, etc., is puzzling. With a flagship like the Kronos, that's priceless advertising for all their low cost products. And having an outstanding integration with DAWs would give a lot of software based folks a reason to invest in hardware.
Indeed.
I´ve got the same oppinion.
And we all know the power of forums like this to help people make buying decisions: get something like the XF that's cheaper, has excellent corporate support, a decent well-rounded sample set, excellent editors & sample managers (both from Yamaha and 3d party), and a reputation for quality hardware and good DAW integration; or take a gamble that the Kronos, which is a superior sound generator in most cases, will deliver on Editor and DAW integration, the OS continuing to be upgraded to its implied promise (M3 sequencer, larger fonts within some screens, etc.) and that the quality of the board itself is on a par with the XF.
Forums like this one tend, in the very end, to perfectly reflect the truth in all its dimensión, as well as give a real idea of "pros" and "cons" about the products, and the oppinion and grade of satisfaction the end user has related to them and the support of the company.

When we see people focused on things like demanding more support from the manufacturer (here Korg) in areas of the product like improving the Sequencer area and to provide better Editor to ensure a proper DAW integration, is not only because the product needs this features to get its full potential vs the other competitor companies, but also because Korg *has already improved those areas* in previous and forthcoming products, so its possible for them to do the same for the Kronos series, and what its more important, not let down its actual user base, giving an image of lack of support and futher development for this particular product to potential costumers eyes.

What I'd like to know, is how profitable the Kronos has been, and is projected to be over its product life. Can they invest another $500,000-$1,000,000 (just guessing here) in the Kronos platform and still see a decent return on investment? d be wondering about the future of workstations!!!
Of course they can.
Konos is selling well, as expected.

The question might be, if they´d want to do it, or if they rather prefer to make no move and include all this requested features in the next model the´ll produce, following the Krome route, which has already every *basic* feature requested for the Kronos:
(Better Sequencecer editing capabilities, better GUI, bigger fonts, what it seems to be a better Editor, etc.)

Given past and recent precedents, IMHO we can expect the answer.
Last edited by Davidb on Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Regards.
D.
summers2
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Post by summers2 »

Actually, my group has been working full-time on the KRONOS for the year and a half since it's release. As noted above, we've released several major software updates in that time.[/quote]

Dan at Korg, I would like to know if running hardware changes have been made to the Kronos that made it absolutely the same as the Kronos X except for the noted sampling/memory changes.. If so what are the serial numbers for the last change? Also, will korg ever address the noisy fan? Or do they consider it to be a minor problem, not affecting sales nor causing much concern for most Kronos buyers.

I have gone from wondering why anyone would buy a Kronos, to strongly considering buying one, as prices on the Kronos have come down somewhat. I have read the posts in the forum very closely.

People on this forum speak so highly of the unit, and most of the problem areas seem to have been addressed except the noisy fan.
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Randelph
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Post by Randelph »

OP here. For those of you lodging complaints within this thread, that's not why I started it.

We all know from the countless topics that have been over run with complaints and requests that many users want Korg to listen. But the purpose of this thread was to gain a better understanding of how Korg, as a company that must make profits to stay alive and to justify continued investment in a complex product like the Kronos, how they make their decisions.

? Are the number of units sold and projected to be sold enough to justify many needed and requested features? Dan said his group has been working on these things for the last year and a half, so is this to be understood that this is the pace of development that the Kronos had during its inception, years in the making, or this is an indication that a small subset of the original teams/individuals working on it have been left with this project?

Just trying to understand how Korg Japan is macro managing their resources for timely results, minimizing negative user feedback and maximizing such a truely flagship product that announces loud and clear, "Korg is here, and we have the best workstation on the planet". Sounds like we've got Korg USA working full time on this project- good to know!

@ Dan: my interest in a sample manager comes from my experience with the Motif XS. It was so incredibly difficult, time consuming and involving wretched work arounds to manage the Programs and Samples. They gave us free, high quality samples, but it was next to impossible to integrate them. One of the biggest problems is that there was no absolute ID for the samples, so if you loaded in 2 different Programs that used the same sample, you'd double load the sample unless you kept meticulous records of exactly what you were doing- not user friendly in the least.
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danatkorg
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Post by danatkorg »

summers2 wrote: Dan at Korg, I would like to know if running hardware changes have been made to the Kronos that made it absolutely the same as the Kronos X except for the noted sampling/memory changes.. If so what are the serial numbers for the last change? Also, will korg ever address the noisy fan? Or do they consider it to be a minor problem, not affecting sales nor causing much concern for most Kronos buyers.
I can't comment on any of this, sorry.

- Dan
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danatkorg
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Post by danatkorg »

Randelph wrote:Sounds like we've got Korg USA working full time on this project- good to know!
I work at Korg R&D, actually; Korg USA is the Korg distributor in the United States, located on the other side of the country.
Randelph wrote:@ Dan: my interest in a sample manager comes from my experience with the Motif XS. It was so incredibly difficult, time consuming and involving wretched work arounds to manage the Programs and Samples. They gave us free, high quality samples, but it was next to impossible to integrate them. One of the biggest problems is that there was no absolute ID for the samples, so if you loaded in 2 different Programs that used the same sample, you'd double load the sample unless you kept meticulous records of exactly what you were doing- not user friendly in the least.
Sounds like this addressed problems specific to the Motif implementation. The built-in support for samples on the KRONOS is pretty powerful already.
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com
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KapnKrunch
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Krome inspired improvements coming to Kronos or not?

Post by KapnKrunch »

Forgive me if there have been other posts glancing this topic, but specifically, for Dan at Korg, can Kronos users expect a revamped GUI based upon the Krome?
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Post by Dniss »

imho, ultimatly, this workstation cannot be everything to everyone and be expected to hold its price point. Like the editor; I have no need for it so I couldn't care less! But oviously for others it could very well be a let down.

They surely had to work within budget limit and set priorities accordingly. Slicing off on certain features to improve others and that sort of things.

Nothing is perfect and ff you take this product as a whole, with its amazing features as well as its "shortcomings" (thought I don't see any), it's still a kickass unit with a satisfying fun/dollar ratio.

Perhaps that is the problem. It's so good it's hard to imagine why the sequencer is not all it should be. A few months ago I would have added to buggy sf2 import interface but apparently that has been fixed.
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