I was just thinking about the Kronos 88 that I played at the guitar center yesterday which had the sticking keys. If it had not been a Kronos, I probably would have just chalked it up to a particular problem unit and not given it much thought. Instead, I hit the keys, checked to see how many there were, looked around for a reason. There were random single keys that were sticking. I checked that they came back up readily, so they weren't rubbing on anything. Then I thought, "this is a Kronos" so I stopped looking and chalked it up to that fact. I didn't call a salesman.
Maybe there was a good reason for the sticking keys (you really had to push them hard) that had nothing to do with quality. So the reality of the fact is that I went to the Guitar Center and played a Korg Kronos 88 key and discovered that it had several random sticking keys. It made me think ill of the Kronos partially because of what I had read before.
However, there are enough complaints about the board to know something is or was bad wrong with the unit. Almost everybody seems to praise the features and the sound. I hope that Korg has/will get a handle on the quality problem with Kronos.
My faith in Korg is restored ( I have another keybed problem
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
Here we go again:
I agree that no shop should use such floor units without checking them.
But such units should not at all have passed Korg quality control in the first place!
And we had enough similar reports from shops and users to be aware, that the numbers of units passing quality control despite issues, are too high, no matter how you try to look at it. Defending the present status makes no sense at all from my view, since it only adds to hurt the reputation of a wonderful synth. The problem has to be solved, and I am confident Korg will do so, because everything else means high risk.
I agree that no shop should use such floor units without checking them.
But such units should not at all have passed Korg quality control in the first place!
And we had enough similar reports from shops and users to be aware, that the numbers of units passing quality control despite issues, are too high, no matter how you try to look at it. Defending the present status makes no sense at all from my view, since it only adds to hurt the reputation of a wonderful synth. The problem has to be solved, and I am confident Korg will do so, because everything else means high risk.
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5
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GregC
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 9451
- Joined: Wed May 15, 2002 12:46 am
- Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
jim, I don't want to make this a 1 year debate. Korg did not knowingly install defective contacts or continue to install them knowingly. They obviously had bad luck with this part and the part populated into the 73/88 production line.jimknopf wrote:Here we go again:
I agree that no shop should use such floor units without checking them.
But such units should not at all have passed Korg quality control in the first place!
And we had enough similar reports from shops and users to be aware, that the numbers of units passing quality control despite issues, are too high, no matter how you try to look at it. Defending the present status makes no sense at all from my view, since it only adds to hurt the reputation of a wonderful synth. The problem has to be solved, and I am confident Korg will do so, because everything else means high risk.
Once this defective part got into the marketplace, users started jumping on it about 1 year ago. It wasn't until January 2012, or spring, that a solution was put in place.
Meanwhile , there was a certain volume of boards that continued to recycle into the marketplace where they should have been yanked back. For this to happen, would involve perfect understanding and perfect coordination with 500 ( est) retailers and various disti's worldwide. In retrospect, its like a needle in a haystack to nail down every defective board in the marketplace. There is no magic way to make this happen from what I read.
Otherwise, it would have been done long ago.
IOW, s**t happens and everyone involved has to deal with it. You can harp on Korg quality control for the next year if it pleases you. At some point, one should let go and move on. At least thats the way I live when there are difficulties. We have pretty much read it all several times and learned what needs to be known.
Greg, I don't see any reasons for comments like "You can harp on Korg quality control for the next year if it pleases you".
The whole thing is no pleasure at all, not for anyone involved, and certainly not for happy Kronos users like me, who get sarcastic feedback from new Kronos users I know (some of them bought a Kronos after testing it in my home studio and then buying one).
I think that besides the casual "sh** happens", which happens to anyone and any company, in this case quality control must have had a hole the size of a haystack, to allow so many faulty units to pass by with various issues and float into the market. And I really hope NOT to hear too much of that kind any longer. It already lasts much too long, and we customers are the last who can change anything about this situation.
The whole thing is no pleasure at all, not for anyone involved, and certainly not for happy Kronos users like me, who get sarcastic feedback from new Kronos users I know (some of them bought a Kronos after testing it in my home studio and then buying one).
I think that besides the casual "sh** happens", which happens to anyone and any company, in this case quality control must have had a hole the size of a haystack, to allow so many faulty units to pass by with various issues and float into the market. And I really hope NOT to hear too much of that kind any longer. It already lasts much too long, and we customers are the last who can change anything about this situation.
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5
Just when we thought most of the problem units were dealt with,along came some more.
For example -
Korg had another opportunity to check individual keyboards before shipping to customers from their own center here in the UK.,one being the original poster of this thread and me as another.
We both thought it was "safe" to get them at this time,thinking that the keybed problems had been sorted etc.
In my case,so far so good,but reading the original poster's experience does make me wonder about my own unit.
Of course Korg will try to rectify any manufacturing fault,willingly,......if they can replicate it at the workshop and it's not caused by the owner,that is.
They have adopted an open door strategy in that owners can either deal with them direct or go via the dealer.
This may well not be to everyone's liking,what could or should have been done in the first place will probably not happen now and all "unlucky" owners with faults will need to go through the existing process.(Myself included,if needed,of course).
I bet the ones that have no problems are fed up with reading about all of this.... the ones that have or had problems will probably read the thread as a harsh reminder of their anguish.
The saga continues then.....
Best Wishes All.
For example -
Korg had another opportunity to check individual keyboards before shipping to customers from their own center here in the UK.,one being the original poster of this thread and me as another.
We both thought it was "safe" to get them at this time,thinking that the keybed problems had been sorted etc.
In my case,so far so good,but reading the original poster's experience does make me wonder about my own unit.
Of course Korg will try to rectify any manufacturing fault,willingly,......if they can replicate it at the workshop and it's not caused by the owner,that is.
They have adopted an open door strategy in that owners can either deal with them direct or go via the dealer.
This may well not be to everyone's liking,what could or should have been done in the first place will probably not happen now and all "unlucky" owners with faults will need to go through the existing process.(Myself included,if needed,of course).
I bet the ones that have no problems are fed up with reading about all of this.... the ones that have or had problems will probably read the thread as a harsh reminder of their anguish.
The saga continues then.....
Best Wishes All.
What saddens me is that it's not just me still having problems.
I really wish that I posted my original note cut off problem, then my follow-up velocity problem, it was just me having very bad luck.
Had that been the case, I wouldn't be about to throw in the towel if I have another problem.
By now it should be the case, I should simply be that tiny percentage of people that have had bad luck that happens whenever anyone buys anything.
But it doesn't appear it is just me.
It may well cost Korg to recall the units, but bad advertisement via word of mouth or forums will end up costing them far more long term and it seems that they either don't seem that bothered, or are playing a bad gamble where they're hoping the people that buy them will mainly play synth organ sounds and wont notice such problems.
Like others, I too want the kronos to be a real success story, I don't honestly think it will be though if over a year later, they still haven't got on top of this problem. Or to put it another way, it might be doing fairly well, but if they had handled this problem better, I think it would be the talk of all music forums and the must have item and I think at least double the amount would have been sold, benefiting Korg and us.
The serial numbers are on the outside of the boxes, if I was Korg US and UK I would get each authorised retailer to send me a list of the serial numbers they have in stock, recall all those that fall under the magic number and simply replace those contacts to make sure they can state with certainty that if you purchase from an authorised dealer, the problem is fixed and over.
If they had done that for me in the first place (I even asked them to do so), this and my previous long threads wouldn't even exist.
Andertons in the UK has 2 B stock 61 note Kronos for sale, 1 B stock 73 note and 3 B stock 88 notes in stock.
And when I checked the other week, they were out of stock of the B stock 88's but were expecting more in from korg the following week
The only other B stock they have in their entire keyboard section whether synth, piano or whatever is a £200 Arturia Analog Experience The Laboratory 49
No B stock Rolands, no B stock Yamaha
http://www.andertons.co.uk/synths-amp-w ... asp#page-1
That in it's self doesn't send out that greater picture
What's more, their B stock 88 Kronos is £470 cheaper than their normal Kronos. I suspect most B stock had the keybed problem, hence customers returned them and korg has changed the contacts.
I can't see me being in a different situation, I'm having contacts changed hence I end up with the same thing, only £500 more as I bought new and loads of hassle and time without my Kronos.
Looking at it like that, I would have been much more better off both financially, time being able to play and hassle wise if I'd bought the B stock in the first place.
I really wish that I posted my original note cut off problem, then my follow-up velocity problem, it was just me having very bad luck.
Had that been the case, I wouldn't be about to throw in the towel if I have another problem.
By now it should be the case, I should simply be that tiny percentage of people that have had bad luck that happens whenever anyone buys anything.
But it doesn't appear it is just me.
It may well cost Korg to recall the units, but bad advertisement via word of mouth or forums will end up costing them far more long term and it seems that they either don't seem that bothered, or are playing a bad gamble where they're hoping the people that buy them will mainly play synth organ sounds and wont notice such problems.
Like others, I too want the kronos to be a real success story, I don't honestly think it will be though if over a year later, they still haven't got on top of this problem. Or to put it another way, it might be doing fairly well, but if they had handled this problem better, I think it would be the talk of all music forums and the must have item and I think at least double the amount would have been sold, benefiting Korg and us.
The serial numbers are on the outside of the boxes, if I was Korg US and UK I would get each authorised retailer to send me a list of the serial numbers they have in stock, recall all those that fall under the magic number and simply replace those contacts to make sure they can state with certainty that if you purchase from an authorised dealer, the problem is fixed and over.
If they had done that for me in the first place (I even asked them to do so), this and my previous long threads wouldn't even exist.
Andertons in the UK has 2 B stock 61 note Kronos for sale, 1 B stock 73 note and 3 B stock 88 notes in stock.
And when I checked the other week, they were out of stock of the B stock 88's but were expecting more in from korg the following week
The only other B stock they have in their entire keyboard section whether synth, piano or whatever is a £200 Arturia Analog Experience The Laboratory 49
No B stock Rolands, no B stock Yamaha
http://www.andertons.co.uk/synths-amp-w ... asp#page-1
That in it's self doesn't send out that greater picture
What's more, their B stock 88 Kronos is £470 cheaper than their normal Kronos. I suspect most B stock had the keybed problem, hence customers returned them and korg has changed the contacts.
I can't see me being in a different situation, I'm having contacts changed hence I end up with the same thing, only £500 more as I bought new and loads of hassle and time without my Kronos.
Looking at it like that, I would have been much more better off both financially, time being able to play and hassle wise if I'd bought the B stock in the first place.
Ojustaboo.
It is by strange coincidence that you and I bought a Kronos following a similar idea.
The difference in my case was I only wanted a memory up grade,without the hard drive and I didn't ask for them to actually check its proper function….I expected that to be workshop routine.
Although I've already mentioned the following part,I think it's relevant to re-cap……
For all those,(including you,of course)reading this, who are about to groan,…."What.. again," I do apologise
.
My dealer didn't use their own stock for this,but ordered direct from Korg,one could speculate on the reasons for that,but perhaps it may have been more convenient at the time and also some transport saving could be made.
Well,maybe…..as the cost of the memory install was not passed onto me and I just paid the current dealer price,even though the unit came fro Korg's own stock,so it could be some other reason,which to be fair,need not concern me.
I believe that you also had one from their stock as well,but have had problems with it,which is not good news at all.
Obviously,it does create some concern for my own keyboard,regarding potential future problems etc.
We could all go on and on about this "until the cows come home" (sorry to mention cows,should be talking burgers here….yes…?? ) wondering when it will all end.
Or will it…….
Best Wishes.
It is by strange coincidence that you and I bought a Kronos following a similar idea.
The difference in my case was I only wanted a memory up grade,without the hard drive and I didn't ask for them to actually check its proper function….I expected that to be workshop routine.
Although I've already mentioned the following part,I think it's relevant to re-cap……
For all those,(including you,of course)reading this, who are about to groan,…."What.. again," I do apologise
.My dealer didn't use their own stock for this,but ordered direct from Korg,one could speculate on the reasons for that,but perhaps it may have been more convenient at the time and also some transport saving could be made.
Well,maybe…..as the cost of the memory install was not passed onto me and I just paid the current dealer price,even though the unit came fro Korg's own stock,so it could be some other reason,which to be fair,need not concern me.
I believe that you also had one from their stock as well,but have had problems with it,which is not good news at all.
Obviously,it does create some concern for my own keyboard,regarding potential future problems etc.
We could all go on and on about this "until the cows come home" (sorry to mention cows,should be talking burgers here….yes…??
) wondering when it will all end.Or will it…….
Best Wishes.
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SanderXpander
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 7860
- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:23 am
Those Andertons prices are interesting, my 88 (purchased a week or so before the X was released) cost 3200. Now they are 2569!
The B stock ones are 2099 and one of those will probably be the original one I purchased from Andertons that got sent back and possibly mended, while the replacement one I have is with Korg being mended and still cost me 3200.
There must be a lesson to learn here somewhere!
The B stock ones are 2099 and one of those will probably be the original one I purchased from Andertons that got sent back and possibly mended, while the replacement one I have is with Korg being mended and still cost me 3200.
There must be a lesson to learn here somewhere!
AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Still got a ********* problem grrrrrr
At first I thought all was well.
Unlike before, if I set global velocity curve to 1 it plays fine. Before at this setting G4 was much much louder.
So I thought all was fixed.
I set velocity curve back to 9 how I like it for my piano playing and was so pleased to have my Kronos back that I spent my time going through various combies.
Depending on the sound, G4 still seemed odd to me, but I played a scale very light pressured and it sounded fine, so I thought it must be psychological.
Then I played the Japanese Grand and I was sure it wasn't me, G4 was playing much louder, again I played very softly up and down the scale and it played fine.
But something was wrong somewhere and I've sussed out what's happening.
It's playing the lightest velocity fine, but as you play harder, that is when G4 is playing louder.
With the Velocity curve set to 9
First I got a fairly heavy hard back book and pressed the keys at different velocities and again recorded into Cubase,
You can clearly see that at low velocity G4 is fine, but the harder I press the book down the louder G4 gets in comparison to the rest.
Next I recorded audio. To do this fairly so that I'm not subconsciously pressing G4 harder. I did the following.
I turned the volume completely down so I couldn't hear what I was playing. I simply played 5 notes up and down, starting on C, then moving to D, them moving to E then to F then to G, and I played this without looking at the keyboard.
That's the best way I could do it without subconsciously pressing one key louder than the other.
I then played back the audio and recorded the sample on my Ipad.
Here is the result.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CcLATe1MaoQ" frameborder="0"></iframe>
very very off-putting when playing piano
Still got a ********* problem grrrrrr
At first I thought all was well.
Unlike before, if I set global velocity curve to 1 it plays fine. Before at this setting G4 was much much louder.
So I thought all was fixed.
I set velocity curve back to 9 how I like it for my piano playing and was so pleased to have my Kronos back that I spent my time going through various combies.
Depending on the sound, G4 still seemed odd to me, but I played a scale very light pressured and it sounded fine, so I thought it must be psychological.
Then I played the Japanese Grand and I was sure it wasn't me, G4 was playing much louder, again I played very softly up and down the scale and it played fine.
But something was wrong somewhere and I've sussed out what's happening.
It's playing the lightest velocity fine, but as you play harder, that is when G4 is playing louder.
With the Velocity curve set to 9
First I got a fairly heavy hard back book and pressed the keys at different velocities and again recorded into Cubase,
You can clearly see that at low velocity G4 is fine, but the harder I press the book down the louder G4 gets in comparison to the rest.
Next I recorded audio. To do this fairly so that I'm not subconsciously pressing G4 harder. I did the following.
I turned the volume completely down so I couldn't hear what I was playing. I simply played 5 notes up and down, starting on C, then moving to D, them moving to E then to F then to G, and I played this without looking at the keyboard.
That's the best way I could do it without subconsciously pressing one key louder than the other.
I then played back the audio and recorded the sample on my Ipad.
Here is the result.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CcLATe1MaoQ" frameborder="0"></iframe>
very very off-putting when playing piano