R3 newbie trying to switch presets live: have RTFM but stuck

[2muchguitarkit]

Apologies for asking what I feel must be an obvious question that is probably covering old ground (I have searched the forums) - please just point me to other threads if appropriate.

I'm trying to set up the R3 for live use with active switching between different sounds/patches, but without an abrupt/hard switch from one sound to the next (I'd like a natural decay on the old sound while activating the new sound).

I've installed the R3 sound editor and am playing with using layered timbres to try to do this (with 2 sounds at least), but no success as yet.

For example (on the standard factory presets) I want to start with the J3 setting (Windstrm), and then while that is decaying I want to be able to come in with e.g. N1 (OB Jumpr) over the decaying sound of J3 - trouble is, when I switch I go to silence first, and it obviously sounds awful. I guess there's a very simple way of doing this, so again, apologies for the obvious question - if there's a more comprehensive "live use" how-to guide, I'd be keen for a link. I was expecting to just be able to set up the 8 "favourite" presets for live switching (giving me 8 patches that I can easily use live with decay/overlay/fade-across on the switches), but it's clearly not that simple... Thanks very much, and Happy New Year!

[axxim]

Welcome to the forum 2muchguitarkit!

Unfortunately there is no way to avoid this.

Changing to a new patch (program) interrupts the prior sound. This commonly has to do with a new set of parameters, effects, envelopes, etc. being loaded in the engine software and initializing the data buffers. If the programmer doesn't do this, the abrupt change of parameter values would produce unpredictable sounds.

Some synths are capable of holding the prior sounds until their corresponding keys are released, but this needs additional processing power and firmware (in other words, while the change is taking place, it needs two sound engines, one for te one that is playing and one for the new one) which is not implemented on this synths. It also depends from the synth engines structure, where romplers are easier to hold such changes than VA synths with complex oscillator, modulator and dedicated FX interactions

[2muchguitarkit]

Thanks very much for the quick and comprehensive reply axxim - much appreciated. Do you have any recommendations for a different synth (or perhaps alternative setup entirely) that might lend itself more to this kind of natural live switching? (I'll confess that for now I won't be using most of the true synth power of the R3, and I don't know if there's a more appropriate instrument that I perhaps ought to be using instead that would enable a wide range of presets and flexibility for a range of music styles but with more natural switching functionality in a live performance environment). Only just started trialling the R3, and it'd still be possible for me to upgrade to other models (or perhaps sideways to an entirely different setup) if you think that might make more sense. Would also be nice to incorporate some more natural piano sounds etc into the mix (understand the limitations/different-focus here for the R3, and have been trialling your GrandPiano.r3p settings which work very well but it might be nice to have more flexibility there too). Again - really appreciate your help - thanks,

[axxim]

Hmmm, for this case, maybe I am not the best option for recommending you exactly what would be the best choice for you since my interests are more on creating "synthetic" sounds. From the "real" instrument sounds I mostly like pianos, strings, and organs. A good acoustic piano is not possible to synthesize with this kind of synthesizer which is why I bought a SP-170S (stage piano) a few days ago, which has a better keybed (hammer action) and a good piano sound. Since I do not play live anymore, the continuity between patch changes (the SP-170S does) never was an issue for me.

In your case, you first need to be specific what kind of sounds or instruments will fit your needs. If it is the complete palette from usual instruments, then you should go for some ROM based "synths" which usually are also called romplers. The actual ones offer between 128 to 512 or more types of sounds or instruments with several variatons, but are very limited in their capability of creating new or different sounds. Depending on your budget, there are a lot of such keyboards from each manufacturer.

The next type would be the "arranger" or music workstation keyboards that are a combination of ROM based sounds and a synth engine offering filters, modulators, effects etc. to modify the sounds and create new ones. Here the quality of the " emulated" sounds depends in most cases of the amount of sample memory (this applies also for the romplers) and the effects section.
Then you have the VA synths like the R3 where the goal is to emulate the classic synths which have different synthesizing techniques such as additive, substractive, frequency modulation, phase distortion/modulation and several others.

Actual top level keyboards like the Kronos, Jupiter 80, etc. offer several synth engines, lots of sampled memory amount, FX, arranger capabilities etc. but are expensive (at least for me and the use I would have for it).

Well i get to extensive on this, so you better post what kind of sounds and/or styles you think you need and there will be better advices from members that are in the same use case than you.

[2muchguitarkit]

Thank you again axxim for the very thorough reply. I've got an old Yamaha P120S for pure piano sounds, but I basically want something (ideally relatively portable if possible) for stage performances of a wide range of the usual "cover tunes from the last 40 years" that offers a wide range of sounds (largely from the usual instruments that you mentioned as well as a wide range of classic synth sounds), and perhaps with a few special effects thrown in like e.g. the J3 setting (Windstrm). I've checked out the top level keyboards that you flagged. The Kronos "Set List" function is perfect for what I'm looking for with "smooth sound transitions" (see 5:14 at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1o2Woa8PBk) and it clearly has more than enough functionality. I agree that the price is pretty punchy though! The Krome didn't seem to offer the same kind of "Set List" switching. Any thoughts or recommendations of another (perhaps simpler/cheaper) setup that I should consider? Otherwise I'll start saving... . Thanks!

[axxim]

...Any thoughts or recommendations of another (perhaps simpler/cheaper) setup that I should consider?...

As I said before, I can't give you good advice on this type of full featured keyboards since they aren't my scope. But while you start saving for it, other members may come with some advices for you

Maybe you should put this question in the "General Synthesizers/Keyboards" topic.

[thehighesttree]

Could you do what you want with a delay/reverb/looper unit? I realize it's a kludgey solution but it might be worth considering. Otherwise, 2 options: either get really good at programming using the virtual patch system to the point where you can have 2 very different sounds in the same patch using, for example, the modwheel routed to different parameters...or look for a used AN1x since it supports a similar feature with 2 patches in 1.

[2muchguitarkit]

Thanks - I'll look into both suggestions. Otherwise the Kronos (although definitely overkill!) would be great...

[X-Trade]

Generally if you are using a simple performance synth like the R3 and you still want to switch between sounds quickly, I would simply recommend using two keyboards.

Original MicroKorg or an MS2000.. or something else entirely, would be a good complement to go alongside the R3.

As Axxim suggests, something that covers more of the 'bread and butter' sounds like piano, bass, and organ, would vastly expand your options sonically. So perhaps something like the microX?

[2muchguitarkit]

Agreed, thanks (have been slowly coming to the same conclusion) - will look into it... Thanks for all the suggestions,

[Re-Member]

I used to have the Roland SH-201 and it allowed you sustain notes while switching between patches. The feature is called "Patch Remain" and a lot of Roland keyboards have it. The only thing that sounded weird though was the transition between the delay effects section. It would often sound like a cassette being eaten for a second, haha.