Is it Hacked now ?!

[SeedyLee]

The technically savvy will also know that very few devices support both S/PDIF and ADAT over the same physical port. In my own studio (http://www.danphillips.com/equipment.htm) I have only one device, the tc fireworx, which does this (see below). You mention the OASYS; it has optical S/PDIF built-in, but requires a separate hardware option, with a dedicated optical port, for ADAT output. All the rest of my devices with optical digital I/O support only one format or the other, including the Focusrite ISA 430, KRONOS, and Mac Pro (all optical S/PDIF only) and the Focusrite ISA 428, MOTU 2408, OASYS PCI, and Frontier Tango24 (all ADAT only).

Having ADAT out would be a killer feature for me, as it would make working with DAWs and external digital mixers much easier.

I wonder how other devices allow the optical port to be switchable between S/PDIF and ADAT. Both my Tascam FW1884 and my MOTU 828mk3 have the ability to use the optical ports as either ADAT or S/PDIF.

More channels over USB would be a welcome compromise, especially if KORG were to release ASIO drivers to complement it. Hmmm, where does it end Are we fickle consumers never happy?

[danatkorg]

A workaround for the headphones and Main L/R being linked to the same channel is to use Individual Outputs 1/2 as the mains, and the Main L/R for headphones only.

Yes, we did that to allow you to monitor on headphones without sending the signal to FOH or recording studio input channels (see my description of L/R Bus Indiv. Assign in the Parameter Guide). Unfortunately, this still doesn't let you do what was requested: send [mix + alpha] to the headphones while sending only [mix] to the individual outputs.

[danatkorg]

I wonder how other devices allow the optical port to be switchable between S/PDIF and ADAT. Both my Tascam FW1884 and my MOTU 828mk3 have the ability to use the optical ports as either ADAT or S/PDIF.

I'm sure that one could design a transceiver to handle both formats; it would just be a specialty item.

[SeedyLee]

A workaround for the headphones and Main L/R being linked to the same channel is to use Individual Outputs 1/2 as the mains, and the Main L/R for headphones only.

Yes, we did that to allow you to monitor on headphones without sending the signal to FOH or recording studio input channels (see my description of L/R Bus Indiv. Assign in the Parameter Guide). Unfortunately, this still doesn't let you do what was requested: send [mix + alpha] to the headphones while sending only [mix] to the individual outputs.

Thanks for posting the reference to the parameter guide. I'm sure you explain it better there than I did!

But yes, it would be nice to be able to have a mix on the headphones.

[SanderXpander]

Oh and Dan, this would probably be comparatively hard to implement, but while you're mesmerizing about added audio routing features, it would be great if all in- and outputs could be switched on/off towards the headphones. I.E. being able to route an input (line from the FOH?) or output (click to ind 1) to HPs but NOT mains would greatly increase the functionality. But it could be the HPs are hardwired to the L/R outputs?

I understand why this would be convenient, but L/R and headphones share the same A/D, and all of the main stereo signals - L/R, headphones, S/PDIF, and USB - share the same logical data stream.

I was afraid of that. Thanks, though!

[Matthomas]

I wonder how other devices allow the optical port to be switchable between S/PDIF and ADAT. Both my Tascam FW1884 and my MOTU 828mk3 have the ability to use the optical ports as either ADAT or S/PDIF.

I'm sure that one could design a transceiver to handle both formats; it would just be a specialty item.

Steinberg MR816csx Audio rack is a few years old now and can do both.
Dan there are quite a few devices with optical jack that can use either ADAT or S/pdif.

USB Audio to a DAW would be another way to get the Kronos audio to DAW, but USB only supports Midi on the Kronos.

Piano roll editor would be the most missing part of the Kronos to make the sequencer useable from practical point of view. We must edit midi notes or the sequencer is not functional enough for regular use.

Krome has Piano Roll Editor and is 4 times less than the Kronos in cost.
I have used the sequencer for over 50 compositions and editing is necessary for many recordings by anyone, I had to export the Kronos Sequences to Cubase to edit the midi notes, where a simple Piano Roll Editor is built into many keyboard sequencers.

This forum is a great place for learning about the Kronos and lots of contributors,
but lots of anger and arguments that are unnecessary. My comments are not flames and intended only as suggestions, hopes and recommendations for the Kronos before it's considered "No longer updated because its no longer current"

Thanks - Mat

[SanderXpander]

My EMU 1820M also does ADAT and SP/DIF on the same port. But it also has a coaxial SP/DIF port that gets disabled if I want to use the optical one so I guess there's your answer on how it manages it.

[GregC]

My EMU 1820M also does ADAT and SP/DIF on the same port. But it also has a coaxial SP/DIF port that gets disabled if I want to use the optical one so I guess there's your answer on how it manages it.

from Dan's post:

"The reason for this is that the transmitter/receiver chips which handle the transfer of data over the optical cable typically support only one format or the other. In other words, it's a hardware limitation; even though they share the same type of port, ADAT and S/PDIF almost always require different hardware under the hood. It would be nice if the KRONOS could operate at different sample rates - we did this with the OASYS PCI DSP card long ago - but that would have added significant complexity to the system.

I agree that more I/O can always come in handy; the tradeoff is cost. Unfortunately, even providing an added-cost option generally increases the production cost of the base model as well. It would also be nice to support multiple channels via USB."

Dan's answer seems to address all aspects. As usual for a manufacturer, there's a cost/benefit issue for getting everything under the hood. I appreciate that Korg kept the cost down on the Kronos ( at least in the US, the price is very fair). I understand that Korg ( and Roland and Yamaha) can't make a keyboard that does all things for all people. The limitations sound frustrating for some musicians. But there are workarounds.

[jimknopf]

I know how much we all like clean sound at the highest possible dynamic level, and try to avoid a/d conversion as much as possible.

But to me using the Kronos analog outs does not produce an audible minus. Maybe others are able to hear a difference from pure digital signal flow: I for one am not able to hear it, and I doubt ANY listsener of the final mix of your music will notice any of that kind, or care the sligthest bit.

So yes, ADAT would be great (I could connect it to my Focusrite 18i6), but still I can live without it.

[overburn]

Kronos vs Kronos X , major improvements?

[blinkofanI]

My EMU 1820M also does ADAT and SP/DIF on the same port. But it also has a coaxial SP/DIF port that gets disabled if I want to use the optical one so I guess there's your answer on how it manages it.

from Dan's post:

"The reason for this is that the transmitter/receiver chips which handle the transfer of data over the optical cable typically support only one format or the other. In other words, it's a hardware limitation; even though they share the same type of port, ADAT and S/PDIF almost always require different hardware under the hood. It would be nice if the KRONOS could operate at different sample rates - we did this with the OASYS PCI DSP card long ago - but that would have added significant complexity to the system.

I agree that more I/O can always come in handy; the tradeoff is cost. Unfortunately, even providing an added-cost option generally increases the production cost of the base model as well. It would also be nice to support multiple channels via USB."

Dan's answer seems to address all aspects. As usual for a manufacturer, there's a cost/benefit issue for getting everything under the hood. I appreciate that Korg kept the cost down on the Kronos ( at least in the US, the price is very fair). I understand that Korg ( and Roland and Yamaha) can't make a keyboard that does all things for all people. The limitations sound frustrating for some musicians. But there are workarounds.

If my memory serves me well, i bought a Korg M1 in 1988 for just a little less than my Kronos 73. So, yes the price is more than fair. That might be my fanboy side talking a bit, but Korg brought the advancements we see in computers today to the keyboard workstation world. Roland and Yamaha workstations, as good as they sound(but we enter the subjective territory) are years behind in terms of what's inside their products. We'll see if NAMM 2013 levels things a bit.

I'm not about to "hack" my Kronos anytime soon. You'll never have a product that's everything to everybody. But, there's solutions to address the Kronos shortcomings outside the instrument. I think it's better to complement the Kronos with these solutions than to try to ask the Kronos to do everything.

Blink

[MoonMusic]

+1....Keep your signal as hot as possible without distorting it and your good to go....When it comes down to it, if the song is good it doesn't matter if your running through optical or not....Especially when your talking about the outputs of something like the Kronos.....Now if it's a matter of "I already have this gear that handles 8 input channels of ADAT optical and I don't want to buy something else that does analog too"....I can certainly understand that arguement from a minimalist point of view....moon

I know how much we all like clean sound at the highest possible dynamic level, and try to avoid a/d conversion as much as possible.

But to me using the Kronos analog outs does not produce an audible minus. Maybe others are able to hear a difference from pure digital signal flow: I for one am not able to hear it, and I doubt ANY listsener of the final mix of your music will notice any of that kind, or care the sligthest bit.

So yes, ADAT would be great (I could connect it to my Focusrite 18i6), but still I can live without it.

[overburn]

any idea why I'm not getting a notification when there is a new post?

[jeremykeys]

overburn, you probably don't have that box ticked in your profile.

Danatkorg; Thank you for everything! Granted, I do know that you don't actually build them yourself by hand, one by one; and some people seem to think you might! The Kronos is the most powerful workstation ever.

People may talk about the price but if you think about the cost of a Minimoog or Prophet 5 when they came out, the kronos is less than half the price. A Prophet 5 was $5,000 in the late 70's. It was the state of the art, 5 note polyphony, no aftertouch, and no sampling.
The Minimoog was over $2,000 when it came out in the very early 70's. No memory, unstable tuning, no polyphony.
This truly begs a question.

What the hell is everybody complaining about?

We have the most powerful and best synthesizer in the world right now!
Let's just shut up and make some music!
If your Kronos does have some physical problems, then I am sorry for you. However, if you are just complaining that it doesn't have features from previous Korgs, maybe someone here can design a better work station.

[SanderXpander]

To be fair, both Prophet and Mini probably sell for roughly the same value today :p