RH3 Keybed Information

[Kim]

Hi everyone!

Haven't written anything on the forum for a long time. Been busy making music.

Anyway, my Kronos was one of the first to appear, serial number in the 2XX. I had the keybed problem and after getting it fixed, I was happy as a clam.

But now after reading the forum and finding out, that everyone can't get up to high velocities, like 127, after the keybed fix. Well, I can confirm that I'm unable to get high velocities with the velocity curve 4 or 9. I reall have to pound my keyboard really strong to get anywhere near the 127 (actually, velocity curve 9 is a tad easier, but not much). The loudest sample is almost unachievable with normal playing.

So I played a while with velocity curve 7 and discovered that there really is a layer of samples, that can only be heard when played with the "zero-dynamics"-velocity curves. Damn! I would like to be able to play then with normal playing in velocity curve 9 as well!

I'm a quite strong fingered piano player, but I don't want to damage my keyboard by pounding it either. I tried another Kronos 88 at the shop, and it displayed similar problems. My Fatar controller at work is much easier to play and has good dynamics. You can play normally, with velocities around 30 (pp) to 127 (ff).

So... I'm bying a Roland Integra 7 now, and was wondering, can I control the thing with my Kronos normally, or will I experience the same problems (not getting the full range of samples by normal playing technique). If so, is this normal for a Korg Kronos, or should I get it fixed yet another time?

Any thought would be appreciated!

No probably not.

From the tests I have done the velocity sent out by midi is exactly the same as what is used internally.

Ok, so back to the shop it goes... If this is not normal behaviour, that is. I'd be disappointed if it was.

[Davidb]

Hi everyone!

Haven't written anything on the forum for a long time. Been busy making music.

Anyway, my Kronos was one of the first to appear, serial number in the 2XX. I had the keybed problem and after getting it fixed, I was happy as a clam.

But now after reading the forum and finding out, that everyone can't get up to high velocities, like 127, after the keybed fix. Well, I can confirm that I'm unable to get high velocities with the velocity curve 4 or 9. I reall have to pound my keyboard really strong to get anywhere near the 127 (actually, velocity curve 9 is a tad easier, but not much). The loudest sample is almost unachievable with normal playing.

So I played a while with velocity curve 7 and discovered that there really is a layer of samples, that can only be heard when played with the "zero-dynamics"-velocity curves. Damn! I would like to be able to play then with normal playing in velocity curve 9 as well!

I'm a quite strong fingered piano player, but I don't want to damage my keyboard by pounding it either. I tried another Kronos 88 at the shop, and it displayed similar problems. My Fatar controller at work is much easier to play and has good dynamics. You can play normally, with velocities around 30 (pp) to 127 (ff).

So... I'm bying a Roland Integra 7 now, and was wondering, can I control the thing with my Kronos normally, or will I experience the same problems (not getting the full range of samples by normal playing technique). If so, is this normal for a Korg Kronos, or should I get it fixed yet another time?

Any thought would be appreciated!

No probably not.

From the tests I have done the velocity sent out by midi is exactly the same as what is used internally.

Bob is right.

I also did some test myself with the very same results.

[Ojustaboo]

Thought I better post back - been using the K now for a couple of days after the big upgrade (by me, not Korg)

I have noticed an improvement in the cut-off, and no double triggering.

Now that the double triggering has stopped (so far) I am noticing the note cut-off could in part be caused by the "touch" an individual player has.

One thing I noted re the Kronos keypads is the are notably higher in profile, than previous Korg pads I have used, consequently they are more susceptible to a light touch causing the contact to cut off, or stop as it is supposed to when the engine receives a "note-off". To perhaps simplify this, it means the pad "surround" needs to compress further before the contact is made, but conversely does not need much release before a note-off gets sent. If that makes sense.

This is more marked on the more sensitive touch settings 3,2 and 1 and on the 9 which is especially created for the acoustic pianos.

I have found setting 3 the best for me, and I am having none of the cut-off issues I was having before, and as I said, no double triggering (again so far )

D

So your still getting the note cut off?

If so that shouldn't be happening which ever velocity curve you use.

My original Kronos was replaced due to bouncing/note cutoff and while my replacement had a different issue (one note played at way too loud velocity) I had zero note cutoff.

I tried at various velocity curves although I tend to usually use 9

[BobTheDog]

The velocity ranges on the Kronos are for me extemely annoying.

On setting 4 I basically get a range of 25-110, so only 85 or so values compared to the 127 I get on every other keyboard I have.

[FlowerP]

1. When and where you had the repair performed
February 2013 in Sweden. EM Nordic did the repair.

2. Which model (73 or 88 )
Kronos 88.

3. Any information you were told about the specific repair made
My K88 had the well known note muting problem caused by "hammer" bounce on soft key depression. This made certain musical phrases impossible to play pianissimo without a few notes cutting off early.

EM Nordic did the standard replacement of the rubber key contacts.

4. The results -- did the fix work?
Yes, after three days of testing, I was unable to provoke note muting.

However, the repair has caused two new faults. First I found that the note-on velocity response was rather uneven from key to key. Looking at velocity data on a MIDI monitor showed that when playing a mf chromatic scale most keys gave values around $40 but some gave consistent values around $58-$60. This makes playing e.g. piano music impossible if good dynamic control is required.

The second fault is even worse. Middle C (C3) retriggers on key release if the key has been pressed hard to activate aftertouch during the sustain phase.

Today I've sent my K88 back to EM Nordic for another repair.

This is really annoying! My Kronos 88 arrived a few days ago from the second repair. This time we unpacked the K88 at the music store to check it out thoroughly. The first thing I noticed was that middle C still retriggered on key release, i.e. exactly as before. Further testing revealed that certain keys still had very uneven velocity response compared to most other keys. So both faults that were supposed to be fixed by the second repair remained, even though the repair shop claimed (by email) that another contact strip exchange had been made and that their testing indicated that the keybed was working as it should!

This time I've clearly demonstrated the faults to personnel at my local music store, and will let them handle further contacts with the repair shop.

(Even velocity response is important for solo piano playing. However, due to velocity switching Kronos' sampled piano sounds aren't optimal for judging velocity evenness. Instead a simple AL-1 patch can be used. Use one oscillator, set Pitch Slope = 0 and Osc pitch mod by Velocity with depth = +48. This makes the oscillator pitch proportional to key on velocity, which allows you to rather accurately determine if the velocity response of a certain key deviates from most other keys.)

[Ojustaboo]

Welcome to the club

I've said it before and me and others saying it is becoming like a broken record, but why is it when these problems occur, people need to send it back 2, 3 or more times before they finally get them sorted.

Korg and korg authorised service centres really need to sort themselves out as they aren't testing these instruments properly before sending them back to customers.

[Davidb]

Welcome to the club

...That keeps growing, it seems.

+1

I've said it before and me and others saying it is becoming like a broken record, but why is it when these problems occur, people need to send it back 2, 3 or more times before they finally get them sorted.

...Or even 4 or 5 times, indeed.

Unfortunately true.

[Saxifraga]

What´s happening with my replacement Kronos 73? The keys are now unevenly spaced. And some keys become virtually longer (f,g and a) keys.
b keys become shorter it seems. wtf

[Davidb]

What´s happening with my replacement Kronos 73? The keys are now unevenly spaced. And some keys become virtually longer (f,g and a) keys.
b keys become shorter it seems. wtf

[Ojustaboo]

What´s happening with my replacement Kronos 73? The keys are now unevenly spaced. And some keys become virtually longer (f,g and a) keys.
b keys become shorter it seems. wtf

I'm in two minds about the Kronos, I love it and have invested a fair bit in a few libraries and karma software.

But the rattles, bounces etc I get from it, sometimes (not often mind you) I wish I'd bought a motif instead.

[Bertotti]

I wanted an 88 but settled for two separate boards instead. I found the risk to high to go for the kronos weighted board. On the other hand the X61 is incredible and hasn't given me a single problem, so far.


Edited to add I am no longer problem free. I should have not typed what I did.

[BobTheDog]

What´s happening with my replacement Kronos 73? The keys are now unevenly spaced. And some keys become virtually longer (f,g and a) keys.
b keys become shorter it seems. wtf

Mine has very uneven spacing as well. I also have the varying lengths so you are not alone here.

[Davidb]

Edited to add I am no longer problem free. I should have not typed what I did.

So what happened Bertotti?

[JonSolo]

Bertotti had a fan problem...seems he is getting it resolved.

I did the spacer thing with some cardboard I had at home and it worked great. Every now and then when I have been playing awhile and the keys are so hot from my speed (ok, I am being a little silly) I get some noise as if with a little more insistence they would do the sticky thing, or the note off bounce thing they do when it touches the front.

Otherwise all is finally well after a lot of reading and careful tuning.

Jon

[Bertotti]

yep, All in the fan thread. Good news is the keybed is great! Hope I didn't just jink myself again! I avoided the weighted beds becasue fo possible problems oddly it seems I should have just went for the 88.