I juts created my new setlist, no probs..
Created a new seq sng - with all programs and settings, no probs.
Checked it did what it was supposed to by running the initialize command, loaded the newly saved .sng file into the sequencer - all good, it plays as expected.
I then use the add to setlist command - and it does add it to the setlist, BUT when I select the setlist slot with the the song now saved in it, the sequencer starts, but nothing plays, and when I then open the sequencer there is no data loaded at all!!!
Is there a step that has been missed? I assumed that the setlist entry would automatically switch the K into the mode applicable to the data in the setlist slot???
Thanks
q re setlists NOT loading .sng files to sequencer
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
q re setlists NOT loading .sng files to sequencer
Last edited by miden on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I expect you have guessed by now; setlist acts like a bookmark, pointing to a page in a book.. That's fine, but only works if that page contains the same information it had when you created the bookmark.
I'm not by my K right now but I assume you will need to set the song file to auto-load in some way so that the bookmark (setlist) will always point to it.
Is this possible? I'm not sure.. But it should be, if you can save a seq in the setlist.
I'm not by my K right now but I assume you will need to set the song file to auto-load in some way so that the bookmark (setlist) will always point to it.
Is this possible? I'm not sure.. But it should be, if you can save a seq in the setlist.
Thanks,
Yeah I agree, that is the way the manual reads - that the song gets loaded into the sequencer as soon as you select the setlist entry. And I am also assuming it operates pretty much the same as the Korg PA series Songbook tool, which I have been using for years
which is really only a "bookmarking" list linking the various bits of data and modes for a given song.
It works for combis and sounds....I tried it..just some bug I think with loading songs.
I might change the title to bug I think...
Yeah I agree, that is the way the manual reads - that the song gets loaded into the sequencer as soon as you select the setlist entry. And I am also assuming it operates pretty much the same as the Korg PA series Songbook tool, which I have been using for years
which is really only a "bookmarking" list linking the various bits of data and modes for a given song.It works for combis and sounds....I tried it..just some bug I think with loading songs.
I might change the title to bug I think...
As I thought - it DOES play a part...
The Korg wrongly (in my view) system that restricts you to having only having a 200 song "set" file instead of being able to select dynamically form ANY file on the storage...means I may have to re-evaluate for live work.
The way I do gigs is I also feature requests as a big part - which is why my songbase is around 1200-1500 songs - and also as I cannot possible even remember even a third of that number I also use charts (but that is another story)
So having to go to the bother of needing to find which song "SET" of 200 the requested song is actually in, sorta takes way the ability to do this in any live sort of way...certainly not a quick process anyway.
This is VERY much like the UPS/UPG system on the Rolands, although in their case it is restricted to 128. And that system is about 12 years old. One would have thought Korg USA could have learned a lesson from the Korg Italy programmers - especially when it comes to this sort of thing and the Sequencer modes
For example the Korg PA series Songbook Tool (that I mentioned previously) can store 9,999 separate entries, and each and every one is dynamically selectable at any time, in ANY mode... and loaded in about 2 seconds flat!!!
No, for me this (for this day and age - ridiculous) restriction to 200 songs, before you need to go searching for another group is not workable.
Okay for people who do the same 50-60 songs week in week out, and who do not dynamically change a pre-ordained setlist at a gig, well I think the K is perfect, also perfect if you are in band as the keys only
Now some might say, well only use ONE seq per .sng and I can say well and good, but as the Setlist does NOT change the song, -it keeps playing the original song file - it does not change!!!....UNLESS you use the 200 song "SET" in which case it will jump to any file, but ONLY if the song is within that 200.
Hmmm..there may be a cheap K on the market soon....
The Korg wrongly (in my view) system that restricts you to having only having a 200 song "set" file instead of being able to select dynamically form ANY file on the storage...means I may have to re-evaluate for live work.
The way I do gigs is I also feature requests as a big part - which is why my songbase is around 1200-1500 songs - and also as I cannot possible even remember even a third of that number I also use charts (but that is another story)
So having to go to the bother of needing to find which song "SET" of 200 the requested song is actually in, sorta takes way the ability to do this in any live sort of way...certainly not a quick process anyway.
This is VERY much like the UPS/UPG system on the Rolands, although in their case it is restricted to 128. And that system is about 12 years old. One would have thought Korg USA could have learned a lesson from the Korg Italy programmers - especially when it comes to this sort of thing and the Sequencer modes
For example the Korg PA series Songbook Tool (that I mentioned previously) can store 9,999 separate entries, and each and every one is dynamically selectable at any time, in ANY mode... and loaded in about 2 seconds flat!!!
No, for me this (for this day and age - ridiculous) restriction to 200 songs, before you need to go searching for another group is not workable.
Okay for people who do the same 50-60 songs week in week out, and who do not dynamically change a pre-ordained setlist at a gig, well I think the K is perfect, also perfect if you are in band as the keys only
Now some might say, well only use ONE seq per .sng and I can say well and good, but as the Setlist does NOT change the song, -it keeps playing the original song file - it does not change!!!....UNLESS you use the 200 song "SET" in which case it will jump to any file, but ONLY if the song is within that 200.
Hmmm..there may be a cheap K on the market soon....
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Shakil
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Miden,
Number of Songs is not the only limit, you may run out of memory with only 10 songs in one SNG file, if those 10 songs are long and have a lot of MIDI data in them.
For your application, PA series may be a better choice.
Number of Songs is not the only limit, you may run out of memory with only 10 songs in one SNG file, if those 10 songs are long and have a lot of MIDI data in them.
For your application, PA series may be a better choice.
Roland Fantom-G6 ARX1, Korg M3-m exb-Radias, Korg Z1-18v, Roland MC-808, Roland MC-909, Korg microKontrol.
Yes Shak I think you are correct the PA series is the "ducks nuts" for live work, but the sounds are not the match of the K. Especially the acoustic and electric pianos - the core of any keyboard for me....
And yes the "sequencer note capacity" could be reached in as few as 10 songs, but hat is not really the point.....
What I am saying is I need a Setlist entry to load any song I choose, not be restricted to ONLY one of the 200 before I need to load a totally new ".sng" set of 200, just to get one song to play as a request and then re-load the ORIGINAL .sng Set to gt back to my playlist...and then what happens if someone else comes up and asks for a song 4 minutes after I finished the last one!!!
I have been trying to figure out some way to make it work, as I really want to keep the K, but nothing seems to do it.
This is a SERIOUS flaw in the operation of the K, and one that I have mentioned before, although I was always shouted down, by more "experienced" users.
Audio operations aside, the sequencer on the K is antiquated and is on par with "onboard" sequencers for 10,12 years ago, not current technology!
That one cannot have the Setlist load in ANY song in ANY mode at ANY time is simply, astounding in a piece of gear as advanced as this is...
And yes the "sequencer note capacity" could be reached in as few as 10 songs, but hat is not really the point.....
What I am saying is I need a Setlist entry to load any song I choose, not be restricted to ONLY one of the 200 before I need to load a totally new ".sng" set of 200, just to get one song to play as a request and then re-load the ORIGINAL .sng Set to gt back to my playlist...and then what happens if someone else comes up and asks for a song 4 minutes after I finished the last one!!!
I have been trying to figure out some way to make it work, as I really want to keep the K, but nothing seems to do it.
This is a SERIOUS flaw in the operation of the K, and one that I have mentioned before, although I was always shouted down, by more "experienced" users.
Audio operations aside, the sequencer on the K is antiquated and is on par with "onboard" sequencers for 10,12 years ago, not current technology!
That one cannot have the Setlist load in ANY song in ANY mode at ANY time is simply, astounding in a piece of gear as advanced as this is...
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SanderXpander
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- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:23 am
I don't think anyone will disagree with you that the sequencer is in some ways outdated. But I also have to say that it looks like you keep running into issues like these, apparently because you have worked with arrangers a lot in the past. Since you resisted suggestions of giving up the K in favor of a Tyros or PA3X (which you used before, right?) it seems you are really attached to some of the Kronos features at least. Which I can well understand
Have you considered maybe pairing your Kronos with a Microarranger, or a Roland BK7M? Or even One Man Band software on a laptop? Just something small and not so cumbersome that can replace or supplement some of the features you feel the Kronos is missing for you?
Have you considered maybe pairing your Kronos with a Microarranger, or a Roland BK7M? Or even One Man Band software on a laptop? Just something small and not so cumbersome that can replace or supplement some of the features you feel the Kronos is missing for you?
I may get SLAMMED for this, but here goes..
Why not just save each piece of music to its own sng file on the SSD.
Make a list and give each sng file a unique code so you can find it quickly and manually load it when required.
The list could be arranged by artist and song name, then in another column just add the code for the file: for example:
Michael Jackson... Moon-walk.. Sng file Code 00001
Plus, if you do this, you'll never run out of note memory and let's face facts, even if you could use the setlist function to call up ANY song from your choice of 1200, surely that would take you just as long to find a random request.
Ill shut up now
Why not just save each piece of music to its own sng file on the SSD.
Make a list and give each sng file a unique code so you can find it quickly and manually load it when required.
The list could be arranged by artist and song name, then in another column just add the code for the file: for example:
Michael Jackson... Moon-walk.. Sng file Code 00001
Plus, if you do this, you'll never run out of note memory and let's face facts, even if you could use the setlist function to call up ANY song from your choice of 1200, surely that would take you just as long to find a random request.
Ill shut up now
Thanks SE,
if I gave up the K, it would only be to move BACK to a Korg PA series. The yammies and others are "toys" compared to the PA series imo.
I already do own a software arranger (vArranger) and I am using a laptop at the moment at gigs to get the job done so to speak.
Believe it or not I am REALLY trying to find a way to justify keeping the K, but with the tech available on it, I am still failing to understand why this gear cannot do it without the need for a separate PC.
I'm okay with replacing "styles" with combis and Karma (I never really used any of the into/endings anyway on the arrangers - pretty much always either no intro or a four stick/hi-hat tap, and a single bar "straight ending" so the Combi/Karma system can work - when I learn it
You see, even if the Setlist would auto call up a new .sng file with the selection of a new Setlist could work - as a Setlist can be recalled via midi, this could be set to a controller, such as the nanoPAD...but one has to actualyl drop out of everything to go to disk mode JUST to load a .sng to get ONE song to play.
Look, I totally agree that if it were "fixed" playlists, with no variation, the Setlist would work fine....the largest playlist I would do is about 75 songs over a 4 hour gig....but these days a performer needs an "edge" to get continued work, and I have found being able to do "on the spot" requests, (as I am quite decent at sight reading), is a popular part of the show.
I am still trying to figure a way, but at this stage the "cupboard is bare"
Dennis
if I gave up the K, it would only be to move BACK to a Korg PA series. The yammies and others are "toys" compared to the PA series imo.
I already do own a software arranger (vArranger) and I am using a laptop at the moment at gigs to get the job done so to speak.
Believe it or not I am REALLY trying to find a way to justify keeping the K, but with the tech available on it, I am still failing to understand why this gear cannot do it without the need for a separate PC.
I'm okay with replacing "styles" with combis and Karma (I never really used any of the into/endings anyway on the arrangers - pretty much always either no intro or a four stick/hi-hat tap, and a single bar "straight ending" so the Combi/Karma system can work - when I learn it
You see, even if the Setlist would auto call up a new .sng file with the selection of a new Setlist could work - as a Setlist can be recalled via midi, this could be set to a controller, such as the nanoPAD...but one has to actualyl drop out of everything to go to disk mode JUST to load a .sng to get ONE song to play.
Look, I totally agree that if it were "fixed" playlists, with no variation, the Setlist would work fine....the largest playlist I would do is about 75 songs over a 4 hour gig....but these days a performer needs an "edge" to get continued work, and I have found being able to do "on the spot" requests, (as I am quite decent at sight reading), is a popular part of the show.
I am still trying to figure a way, but at this stage the "cupboard is bare"
Dennis
Actually niblit on the PA it takes me 3 button pushes, all of about 4 seconds. Truly! Press the Songbook button twice, this brings up a number pad enter the number (which is noted on the chart) press enter, PLAY!!Niblit wrote:I may get SLAMMED for this, but here goes..
Why not just save each piece of music to its own sng file on the SSD.
Make a list and give each sng file a unique code so you can find it quickly and manually load it when required.
The list could be arranged by artist and song name, then in another column just add the code for the file: for example:
Michael Jackson... Moon-walk.. Sng file Code 00001
Plus, if you do this, you'll never run out of note memory and let's face facts, even if you could use the setlist function to call up ANY song from your choice of 1200, surely that would take you just as long to find a random request.
Ill shut up now
And I already figured I could run that system, but really, on the K, having to jump out of everything to Disk Mode, to load a song, then re-enter whatever mode after that
To me, I have made too many sacrifices in methodology to accommodate the Korg K system as it is...this would be one work-around too many!!!
The promotional material, and indeed the manuals (which I perused BEFORE purchase) were not really specific on this point.
Seems to me the K is designed for either Studio musicians, or those who play in bands. I do no think for a moment, solo performers ever came into the software design.
This is the difference, as I see it, between the Korg Italy software designers, and the Korg USA software designers. The Italian guys really know how to put together an OS for a gigging keyboard. A pity the "soundscape" is not up to the K standard!!!
The USA designers carry on the USA's apparent disdain for anything "arranger like" in operation. Moreover, there is a distinct snobbery among most USA musos as well, who tend to "look down their noses" at arranger boards.
To reiterate, imo, Korg USA could learn a thing or two from their Italian counterparts
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SanderXpander
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 7860
- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:23 am
I really don't look down my nose at arranger keyboards myself. I may have given you a wrong impression before (just judging by your reaction in that fateful thread). I own One Man Band software (how do you like vArranger btw? Not too enthused about OMB myself, needs too much work). I've even been considering a Microarranger myself before I saw the BK7M and now I want to test that. I just think the Kronos is not really equipped for what you're trying to do with it. I think there's a big difference in our "live" markets. I play exclusively with bands or piano/vocal duos. That means right now I never need backing tracks. The Kronos, for me, is still by far the best live board I've ever owned and I don't see any better one on the market. But we come from different directions. I have a piano/synth background and have never professionally worked with arrangers (or preproduced static backing tracks). I'm superficially familiar with them only. So we went into it with a different set of expectations of what a pro live board should be able to do.
It would be nice if there were a one-fits-all solution but that'd probably make the Kronos even more complex leading to its own trouble. For what it's worth, I don't think it will ever happen. Korg has two entirely separate development and production platforms (Italy/Japan) for arrangers and synths.
It would be nice if there were a one-fits-all solution but that'd probably make the Kronos even more complex leading to its own trouble. For what it's worth, I don't think it will ever happen. Korg has two entirely separate development and production platforms (Italy/Japan) for arrangers and synths.
Yeah SE, fwiw, I totally agree with you.
I too think the K is THE best axe going - daylight second!!!
Sorry m8, the comment re the "arranger" stigma in the US was not directed at you. I could have used better syntax
vArranger, while expensive is a superb bit of software!! I even had it running via VSTi's. Sounded pretty awesome with BFD, and ManyBass - I used Lounge Lizard and True Pianos for my keys ...the rest was simply a guitar track or pad/strings etc..All running via the Cantabile VST host using LoopMidi (a software MIDI router).
BUT the big drawback was the lack of midi patch and bank support in most VSTi's, meaning an incredible amount of work to get even the simplest of patterns set right ! And then to set up "presets" of an entire song config within Cantabile. And then the added time of loading in etc etc
The K, was supposed to replace all of that. VST quality sounds, Setlist to link song setups together, smooth transitions and on and on and on
I am still trying to find some sort of decent compromise - maybe even just settle for this...........................
If I want to keep the K, get used to the idea of using a lappy permanently and run all backing tracks (around 35%) arranger styles (about 40-45%) via it, and everything else live from the keyboard.
Thanks for your interest though it is appreciated
Dennis
I too think the K is THE best axe going - daylight second!!!
Sorry m8, the comment re the "arranger" stigma in the US was not directed at you. I could have used better syntax
vArranger, while expensive is a superb bit of software!! I even had it running via VSTi's. Sounded pretty awesome with BFD, and ManyBass - I used Lounge Lizard and True Pianos for my keys ...the rest was simply a guitar track or pad/strings etc..All running via the Cantabile VST host using LoopMidi (a software MIDI router).
BUT the big drawback was the lack of midi patch and bank support in most VSTi's, meaning an incredible amount of work to get even the simplest of patterns set right ! And then to set up "presets" of an entire song config within Cantabile. And then the added time of loading in etc etc
The K, was supposed to replace all of that. VST quality sounds, Setlist to link song setups together, smooth transitions and on and on and on
I am still trying to find some sort of decent compromise - maybe even just settle for this...........................
If I want to keep the K, get used to the idea of using a lappy permanently and run all backing tracks (around 35%) arranger styles (about 40-45%) via it, and everything else live from the keyboard.
Thanks for your interest though
it is appreciatedDennis
It's a shame you can't figure it out.. Same old s**t I feel; we all want the latest and greatest gadgets but from my experience, whenever I chose to upgrade my gear it always leaves me a little peeed off.miden wrote:Actually niblit on the PA it takes me 3 button pushes, all of about 4 seconds. Truly! Press the Songbook button twice, this brings up a number pad enter the number (which is noted on the chart) press enter, PLAY!!Niblit wrote:I may get SLAMMED for this, but here goes..
Why not just save each piece of music to its own sng file on the SSD.
Make a list and give each sng file a unique code so you can find it quickly and manually load it when required.
The list could be arranged by artist and song name, then in another column just add the code for the file: for example:
Michael Jackson... Moon-walk.. Sng file Code 00001
Plus, if you do this, you'll never run out of note memory and let's face facts, even if you could use the setlist function to call up ANY song from your choice of 1200, surely that would take you just as long to find a random request.
Ill shut up now
And I already figured I could run that system, but really, on the K, having to jump out of everything to Disk Mode, to load a song, then re-enter whatever mode after that
To me, I have made too many sacrifices in methodology to accommodate the Korg K system as it is...this would be one work-around too many!!!
The promotional material, and indeed the manuals (which I perused BEFORE purchase) were not really specific on this point.
Seems to me the K is designed for either Studio musicians, or those who play in bands. I do no think for a moment, solo performers ever came into the software design.
This is the difference, as I see it, between the Korg Italy software designers, and the Korg USA software designers. The Italian guys really know how to put together an OS for a gigging keyboard. A pity the "soundscape" is not up to the K standard!!!
The USA designers carry on the USA's apparent disdain for anything "arranger like" in operation. Moreover, there is a distinct snobbery among most USA musos as well, who tend to "look down their noses" at arranger boards.
To reiterate, imo, Korg USA could learn a thing or two from their Italian counterparts
The new gear as expected, has all the latest MUST HAVE bits and bobs but for some strange reason they seem to leave out the best bits of the gear you just traded in.
WE WILL NEVER WIN !
Best of luck man.