Microkorg XL,Radias and R3 to M3+exb-radias conversion

pkeijzer72 · Post by **pkeijzer72** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:51 am

Hi all,

I am working on a simple java program to convert Microkorg XL patches to Korg M3+exb-radias... I came quite far allready, but still have about 15% of the parameters to figure out, and the vocoder paramters...

I am loading the Mkxl_all files and converting to an M3(+radias) .PCG file.

Also working on radias to M3+exb and R3 to exb-radias (both at 60% right now)..

My question:

Does anyone have the FULL midi implementation chart of the Microkorg XL???

And, can someone post me some banks (mkxl_all, RDL or R3L) (or email) so I could do some further testing in converting them??

Been working with the implementation chart of the older "normal" microkorg, but these are not fully compatible so I had to figure everything out by myself.

Thanks in advance!

magikroom · Post by **magikroom** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:58 am

Wish I could help, but good luck with this project, i'd be very interested in having them.

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:15 am

This is for the original Microkorg so it may not be of any use to you but here's the link.

http://www.korg.com/uploads/Support/MK1 ... 960000.pdf

drama1 · Post by **drama1** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:11 pm

This conversion, if possible, would be AWESOME

pkeijzer72 · Post by **pkeijzer72** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:26 pm

Bald Eagle wrote:This is for the original Microkorg so it may not be of any use to you but here's the link.

http://www.korg.com/uploads/Support/MK1 ... 960000.pdf

Thanks, I found that also, but these machines are not quite the same... I figured out most of the vocoder parameters myself btw...

some parameters are not easily converted I found out..

Anyone care for a test ?? Microkorg XL to M3+radias??

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:53 pm

Hello pkeijzer,

If you have the document for the XL already, I would be interested to have it. I also only have the original microKorg.

I don't have a microKorg so I'm afraid I cannot help testing, but wish you all the best with the project.

pkeijzer72 · Post by **pkeijzer72** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:01 pm

michelkeijzers wrote:Hello pkeijzer,

If you have the document for the XL already, I would be interested to have it. I also only have the original microKorg.

I don't have a microKorg so I'm afraid I cannot help testing, but wish you all the best with the project.

Michel.. I do not have the document, but I found out a lot of parameters by trial and error. At the moment I am trying convertsons for 3 synths, and don't focus on any particular at the moment (allready had my fair share of Microkorg XL programming hours behind me.

Maybe I picked the wrong microkorg (XL), and maybe people are more interested in Microkorg > M3(radias) or Radias, for as far as the parameters match ????....

Btw michel... your PCG tools came in quite handy in copying/pasting the Init programs and combi's for the "base" .pcg file for the M3..thanks!!

I'll keep you all posted....

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:07 pm

pkeijzer72 wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:Hello pkeijzer,

If you have the document for the XL already, I would be interested to have it. I also only have the original microKorg.

I don't have a microKorg so I'm afraid I cannot help testing, but wish you all the best with the project.
Michel.. I do not have the document, but I found out a lot of parameters by trial and error. At the moment I am trying convertions for 3 synths, and do'nt focus on any particular at the moment (allready had my fair share of Microkorg XL programming hours behind me.

Maybe I picked out the wrong microkorg (XL), and maybe people are more interested in Microkorg > M3(radias) or Radias, for as far as the parameters match ????....

Btw michel... your PCG tools came in quite handy in copying/pasting the Init programs and combi's for the "base" .pcg file for the M3..thanks!!

I'll keep you all posted....

Ok I guess I have not followed all threads lately. Being busy with PCG Tools (thanks for the nice compliment), so I don't check every thread anymore on a regular basis.

If you need any patch, documentation let me know, I gathered a lot from different sites.

Also, if you need help with the PCG format of the M3 let me know (in PCG Tools I only use a small amount of parameters, but the M3 PCG file format is a bit tricky).

Also maybe in the future I will add support for more synths too (like Radias, micro ... etc). Currently I'm busy with the Trinity.

ffx · Post by **ffx** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:54 pm

Cool stuff. I already converted some patches from XL->m3 manually, using the two editors side by side

This works absolutely, and the sound will be exactly the same.

Sometimes only the naming differs, but sure you figured this out already

Some differences:
- M3 has no random LFO curve. This can be emulated a bit by using S&H curve + curve shape +63 or something(?)

- Oscillator Pulse -> Oscillator Square

- Waveshape/Drive is simplified into one parameter in the XL. But theM3 can do exactly the same types of ws/drive types.

- At the LFOs, the key sync name differs (xl->m3):
Timbre->1st Note
Voice->Each Note

- The ENV curves of the XL are always linear.

- the portamento curve seems to be always linear on the XL

- PUNCH level is in the amp/eq section in the M3

- Sine/VPM Oscillator mode is buggy on M3, works only in program mode. So don't wonder if it sounds different.

- Virtual Patch destination naming:
OSC1 Tune -> OSC1 Pitch
OSC2 Tune -> OSC2 Pitch
Filter 1 Balance -> Filter A Type
Filter 1 Cutoff -> Filter A Freq
Filter 2 Cutoff -> Filter B Freq
Panpot->Pan

Also the order of the destinations are identically, so binary the representing numbers seem to be the same.

The old microkorg has a completely different synthesis. So I don't believe any data from it would be helpful at all.

Please keep the work up! Thanks!

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:02 pm

ffx wrote:Cool stuff. I already converted some patches from XL->m3 manually, using the two editors side by side This works absolutely, and the sound will be exactly the same.

Sometimes only the naming differs, but sure you figured this out already

Please keep the work up! Thanks!

Ehmmm there is not a way to convert XL to M3 ... actually you cannot even load XL PCG files so I'm not sure what you did.

pkeijzer72 · Post by **pkeijzer72** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:12 pm

michelkeijzers wrote:
ffx wrote:Cool stuff. I already converted some patches from XL->m3 manually, using the two editors side by side This works absolutely, and the sound will be exactly the same.

Sometimes only the naming differs, but sure you figured this out already

Please keep the work up! Thanks!
Ehmmm there is not a way to convert XL to M3 ... actually you cannot even load XL PCG files so I'm not sure what you did.

Michel, he is using the old-fasioned "editor side by side" method.....the exact thing I am trying to avoid

This has nothing to do with loading .pcg or mk_all (or something) files. He was just refering to the fact that both engines produce the same sound when the parameters are copied exactly.

regards,
Patrick

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:17 pm

pkeijzer72 wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
ffx wrote:Cool stuff. I already converted some patches from XL->m3 manually, using the two editors side by side This works absolutely, and the sound will be exactly the same.

Sometimes only the naming differs, but sure you figured this out already

Please keep the work up! Thanks!
Ehmmm there is not a way to convert XL to M3 ... actually you cannot even load XL PCG files so I'm not sure what you did.
Michel, he is using the old-fasioned "editor side by side" method.....the exact thing I am trying to avoid
This has nothing to do with loading .pcg or mk_all (or something) files. He was just refering to the fact that both engines produce the same sound when the parameters are copied exactly.

regards,
Patrick

Ok now I understand ... if it would be very easy to convert the parameters I would have automated it but it is not that trivial ... although I think you are busy with that conversion to automate.

PCG Tools might help with checking the basic content and who knows in future I will add some kind of conversion.

pkeijzer72 · Post by **pkeijzer72** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:24 pm

Michel,

It takes a lot of time.. I am sort of finished with the radias (effects reprogramming is "no fun", and the M3 lacks step sequencer and arpeggiator (I thought about reprogramming Karma, but they're so different)..

I spent most of my spare time on this, and I seem to be hopping between the 3 synths (radias, R3 and microkorg XL), and replacing bits of code between the 3 modules (in the program).

I will post when I am confident at least from all the synths the "basic" sound parameters are copied correctly. At this moment I will have to find a way to have the M3 "understand" the .PCG file I create.... the M3 editor is not that picky and accepts what I feed it...

Regards,

Patrick

ffx · Post by **ffx** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:28 pm

pkeijzer72 wrote: and the M3 lacks step sequencer and arpeggiator (I thought about reprogramming Karma, but they're so different)..

What about the MSEQ section in the EXB-radias?

pkeijzer72 · Post by **pkeijzer72** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:29 pm

Mod sequencer is available on both, so these parameters will be copied 1:1 (referring to the radias, that is)

patrick

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