I am having trouble patching the sounds used in this song. Particularly the vocoder sound. I would appreciate some help or some direction on how I could get the vocoder, bass, and lead sounds to this song. Thanks in advance.
Here is the link to the song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV_3Dpw-BRY
MicroKorg Kavinsky-Nightcall Sound
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
You're having problems because you're misinterpreting what you're hearing. There's no vocoder being used in the original track, so of course, you're going to have a lot of problems trying to use a vocoder to reproduce something not done by a vocoder. You can tell a vocoder isn't used because a vocoder uses the vocal EQ shape on top of a synth carrier. The voice on that track doesn't have a synth carrier. It's a voice (whisper/raspy) carrier. Try whispering into a mic and then putting a flanger or phase shifter effect on top. You can also use a vocal modulator to produce a whisper/rasp voice from a regular voice.
Besides the vocals, the synths are pretty easy. There's a bass synth with a filter envelope with high resonance to give it a wah effect. There's a supersaw brass pad. All standard stuff. I liked the movie Drive and the soundtrack. It's a good one to learn synthesis, so I don't want to spoil it for you by telling you exactly how to do the patches. That really is part of the fun, you know, tweaking the patch until you get it perfect (or better - more to your liking).
Besides the vocals, the synths are pretty easy. There's a bass synth with a filter envelope with high resonance to give it a wah effect. There's a supersaw brass pad. All standard stuff. I liked the movie Drive and the soundtrack. It's a good one to learn synthesis, so I don't want to spoil it for you by telling you exactly how to do the patches. That really is part of the fun, you know, tweaking the patch until you get it perfect (or better - more to your liking).
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somerandomguy
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:46 am
- Contact:
Nightcall MicroKORG Settings
I too am new to the microkorg and wishing to cover this song. Drive was one of the main reasons that got me interested in electro pop music. I have had my microkorg for about a week and I have learned a lot and just began trying to write my own patches. I've also been trying to get the right tones for this song and while close, know it's possible to do better. If anyone has any advice on where to start for this song or which settings to modify in the effects matrix I would really appreciate it. Thanks!
I suggest that you start with the moog bass patch. It's very simple in concept, but takes some effort to get right. Start with a simple sawtooth wave. That's the best wave to start for any sound that makes a "wah" of any kind. The wah is done by emphasizing or cutting off harmonics of the fundamental note, and the saw wave has lots of these harmonics. Using a sine wave is the worst choice because it has no harmonics - it consists entirely of the fundamental note, so there's no harmonics in there to boost or cut to make the wah. An interesting thing about a saw wave is that a low pass filter can turn it into a sine wave by cutting off all of the harmonics, if the center of the filter is adjusted to pass only that note.
For this moog bass, you need to think about how two different envelopes will be used to produce the result.
The amp envelope will be used to set the bass attack and release, which will determine if it's an aggressive pluck/slap sound or a smooth acoustic/fretless kind of profile. The bass in Nightcall has a rather mild attack that isn't very pluck-ish. So it's a slower attack that has more of a build up than a zero attack. A zero attack is more vertical, like a wall, a leading edge of a square wave, which usually results in a distinctive "click" attack since the speaker you're listening to can't physically move from zero to some high level in nanoseconds, so it distorts and produces the "click" due to shock harmonics. Increasing the attack a bit will cause the click to go away as the signal is allowed to build up within the ability of the speaker to respond to it physically. So a smooth synth bass always has an attack greater than zero to get rid of the click and to allow the bass fundamental note to build. So the attack profile is more like a steep mountain rather than a sheer cliff.
Note that the bass notes in Nightcall carry on sounding for quite a while. They aren't quick staccato stabs. So it has a rather long release, which is when the wah happens. The amp envelope doesn't do the wah, but it does have to let the note carry long enough for that to happen. The release seems to be about 3-5 seconds.
The wah is done with the filter envelope. The filter envelope is the key characteristic of the moog bass. The filter curve is rather pronounced, so a 24db low pass is about right, with a lot of resonance. The amount of resonance, the center point, and the amount of filter are what you need to fine tune to get the right sound of the wah. The filter envelope determines how the wah occurs over time in response to the note on and off events. The note on will open up the filter with the attack, decay and sustain part of the envelope, and the note off will trigger the release part of the envelope, which will slowly close the filter.
One trick is to first adjust the filter profile before worrying about the envelope. Play a note while manually increasing and decreasing the center/cuttoff point of the filter. This will let you focus on the sound of the filter to adjust the resonance for the right harmonics. Then make note of the low and high points of the range of the center/cutoff that reproduce the sound you want. The envelope can then be set to automate the motion of the cutoff point by using the range you observed. It can be confusing to adjust the filter envelope and the filter parameters at the same time. so breaking it up into two steps can help you focus on the sound of the filter before the "motion" of it.
For this moog bass, you need to think about how two different envelopes will be used to produce the result.
The amp envelope will be used to set the bass attack and release, which will determine if it's an aggressive pluck/slap sound or a smooth acoustic/fretless kind of profile. The bass in Nightcall has a rather mild attack that isn't very pluck-ish. So it's a slower attack that has more of a build up than a zero attack. A zero attack is more vertical, like a wall, a leading edge of a square wave, which usually results in a distinctive "click" attack since the speaker you're listening to can't physically move from zero to some high level in nanoseconds, so it distorts and produces the "click" due to shock harmonics. Increasing the attack a bit will cause the click to go away as the signal is allowed to build up within the ability of the speaker to respond to it physically. So a smooth synth bass always has an attack greater than zero to get rid of the click and to allow the bass fundamental note to build. So the attack profile is more like a steep mountain rather than a sheer cliff.
Note that the bass notes in Nightcall carry on sounding for quite a while. They aren't quick staccato stabs. So it has a rather long release, which is when the wah happens. The amp envelope doesn't do the wah, but it does have to let the note carry long enough for that to happen. The release seems to be about 3-5 seconds.
The wah is done with the filter envelope. The filter envelope is the key characteristic of the moog bass. The filter curve is rather pronounced, so a 24db low pass is about right, with a lot of resonance. The amount of resonance, the center point, and the amount of filter are what you need to fine tune to get the right sound of the wah. The filter envelope determines how the wah occurs over time in response to the note on and off events. The note on will open up the filter with the attack, decay and sustain part of the envelope, and the note off will trigger the release part of the envelope, which will slowly close the filter.
One trick is to first adjust the filter profile before worrying about the envelope. Play a note while manually increasing and decreasing the center/cuttoff point of the filter. This will let you focus on the sound of the filter to adjust the resonance for the right harmonics. Then make note of the low and high points of the range of the center/cutoff that reproduce the sound you want. The envelope can then be set to automate the motion of the cutoff point by using the range you observed. It can be confusing to adjust the filter envelope and the filter parameters at the same time. so breaking it up into two steps can help you focus on the sound of the filter before the "motion" of it.
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somerandomguy
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:46 am
- Contact:
My first cover with MicroKORG
I just wanted to say thanks for the help and I posted a link below to my cover of Nightcall by Kavinsky. Tell me what you think. I used Microkorg vocoder and Mixcraft 6.
http://youtu.be/3SLvoo00m9k
http://youtu.be/3SLvoo00m9k
You're welcome. I guess it all depends on how accurately you want to cover the original. It's ok to do covers that have your own style and differences, but if your goal is to reproduce the original as closely as possible, then I can help you achieve that better than you've done. I don't want to be critical of your effort if your goal is to do your own version and keep your own style, because I think it's great for people to make music they enjoy doing for themselves and others for fun. One of the main reasons I come here to answer questions is to help other people in their efforts to make better music. Sometimes that involves honest criticism and pointing out negatives/problems, so that they can better understand which elements can be changed, removed or replaced to get closer to their goal. So when I give some criticism, it isn't intended to make them feel bad about what they've done. In fact, my intent is to give them my honest assessment so that they can more effectively improve - which many other people aren't willing to do.
So, if your goal is more accuracy, then I have the following suggestions. Stop using the vocoder. The original track is not using one. The singer is whispering and there's phase shifting or flanging going on. Not vocoding. The girl's voice is a good match in timbre/tone, but the pitch and timing is off quite a bit. That can be fixed to some degree with pitch correction, but don't go crazy with the pitch correction to get the T-Pain Autotune effect, since the original (Kavinsky) singer's voice sounds rather flat without a lot of effects to sweeten it up. Or maybe you could have your singer practice singing along to Kavinsky dozens of times with headphones to monitor her own voice. She could very well improve her takes on her own if you give her the tools to do it. I like to give people lots of chances to improve and work on things, encouraging them to try again and pointing out as specifically as I can where I think the problems are occurring and why, to see if they can hear the differences for themselves. Doing lots of different takes can be pointless if the person doesn't have any clue about different things to try or if they don't see any difference between the takes for themselves. Critical listening is a skill that can take a lot of time to develop, and it can be even harder to evaluate your own voice or singing.
If you really like the vocoder and want to keep using it, that's fine too. It's just not going to be very close to Kavinsky's sound. I think it's great that you're trying to cover the song because I instantly liked the original when I heard it on the Drive soundtrack, and I loved the movie too.
So, if your goal is more accuracy, then I have the following suggestions. Stop using the vocoder. The original track is not using one. The singer is whispering and there's phase shifting or flanging going on. Not vocoding. The girl's voice is a good match in timbre/tone, but the pitch and timing is off quite a bit. That can be fixed to some degree with pitch correction, but don't go crazy with the pitch correction to get the T-Pain Autotune effect, since the original (Kavinsky) singer's voice sounds rather flat without a lot of effects to sweeten it up. Or maybe you could have your singer practice singing along to Kavinsky dozens of times with headphones to monitor her own voice. She could very well improve her takes on her own if you give her the tools to do it. I like to give people lots of chances to improve and work on things, encouraging them to try again and pointing out as specifically as I can where I think the problems are occurring and why, to see if they can hear the differences for themselves. Doing lots of different takes can be pointless if the person doesn't have any clue about different things to try or if they don't see any difference between the takes for themselves. Critical listening is a skill that can take a lot of time to develop, and it can be even harder to evaluate your own voice or singing.
If you really like the vocoder and want to keep using it, that's fine too. It's just not going to be very close to Kavinsky's sound. I think it's great that you're trying to cover the song because I instantly liked the original when I heard it on the Drive soundtrack, and I loved the movie too.
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AznprsuAzn
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:04 am
Whisper Vocals with Vocoder
About 3 months ago I made this patch to try to replicate the whisper vocals. This is as close as I could get using the vocoder through my crap speakers.
The octave buttons should be green on the down side. And it may help if you talk into the mic in a low raspy voice.
Voice: knob 1-Vcd; knob 3-PLY
Pitch: knob 1-0; knob 2-0; knob 3-0; knob 4-2; knob 5-0
Osc 1: knob 1-SAW; knob 2-0; knob 3-119
Osc 2: knob 1-100; knob 2-30; knob 3-64; knob 4-EnA
Mixer: knob 1-127; knob 2-0; knob 3-100
Filter: knob 1-(-1); knob 2-12; knob 3-40; knob 4-50
Filter EG: knob 1-LF.2; knob 2-0
Amp: knob 1-127; knob 2-0; knob 3-off; knob 4-0
Amp EG: knob 1-0; knob 2-64; knob 3-127; knob 4-45; knob 5-on
LFO 1: knob 1-S-H; knob 2-Voc; knob 3-on; knob 4-3.32
LFO 2: knob 1-S-H; knob 2-Voc; knob 3-on; knob 4-3.32
Patch 1: knob 1-127; knob 2-127; knob 3-127; knob 4-127
Patch 2: knob 1-127; knob 2-127; knob 3-127; knob 4-127
Patch 3: knob 1-cnt; knob 2-r.15; knob 3-r.63; knob 4-r.28
Patch 4: knob 1-r.13; knob 2-r.25; knob 3-r.61; knob 4-r.10
Mod FX: knob 1-FL9; knob 2-27; knob 3-30
Delay: knob 1-Cr5; knob 2-off; knob 3-55; knob 4-32
EQ: knob 1-500; knob 2-5; knob 3-1.00; knob 4-6
Arpeg A: knob 1-23; knob 2-1.16; knob 3-100; knob 4-tr9; knob 5-1
Arpeg B: knob 1-on; knob 2-0; knob 3-on; knob 4-8
Global: knob 1-40.0; knob 2-0; knob 3-CrU; knob 4-PrE; knob 5-off
MIDI: knob 1-1; knob 2-on; knob 3-int
If anyone tries this out let me know what you think. Feel free to make any changes to it as well.
The octave buttons should be green on the down side. And it may help if you talk into the mic in a low raspy voice.
Voice: knob 1-Vcd; knob 3-PLY
Pitch: knob 1-0; knob 2-0; knob 3-0; knob 4-2; knob 5-0
Osc 1: knob 1-SAW; knob 2-0; knob 3-119
Osc 2: knob 1-100; knob 2-30; knob 3-64; knob 4-EnA
Mixer: knob 1-127; knob 2-0; knob 3-100
Filter: knob 1-(-1); knob 2-12; knob 3-40; knob 4-50
Filter EG: knob 1-LF.2; knob 2-0
Amp: knob 1-127; knob 2-0; knob 3-off; knob 4-0
Amp EG: knob 1-0; knob 2-64; knob 3-127; knob 4-45; knob 5-on
LFO 1: knob 1-S-H; knob 2-Voc; knob 3-on; knob 4-3.32
LFO 2: knob 1-S-H; knob 2-Voc; knob 3-on; knob 4-3.32
Patch 1: knob 1-127; knob 2-127; knob 3-127; knob 4-127
Patch 2: knob 1-127; knob 2-127; knob 3-127; knob 4-127
Patch 3: knob 1-cnt; knob 2-r.15; knob 3-r.63; knob 4-r.28
Patch 4: knob 1-r.13; knob 2-r.25; knob 3-r.61; knob 4-r.10
Mod FX: knob 1-FL9; knob 2-27; knob 3-30
Delay: knob 1-Cr5; knob 2-off; knob 3-55; knob 4-32
EQ: knob 1-500; knob 2-5; knob 3-1.00; knob 4-6
Arpeg A: knob 1-23; knob 2-1.16; knob 3-100; knob 4-tr9; knob 5-1
Arpeg B: knob 1-on; knob 2-0; knob 3-on; knob 4-8
Global: knob 1-40.0; knob 2-0; knob 3-CrU; knob 4-PrE; knob 5-off
MIDI: knob 1-1; knob 2-on; knob 3-int
If anyone tries this out let me know what you think. Feel free to make any changes to it as well.
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somerandomguy
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:46 am
- Contact:
Nightcall Cover 2.0
I appreciate all the feed back. Don't worry I like constructive criticism and you obviously have more knowledge on the subject than I do. I decided to try to make the song my own and thus went back and reworked it. I got rid of the female vocals and threw in some talk box. Which I think worked a lot better. I also had a good friend put in some screamo vocals which I love. All together I think this version is much better than the first. Progress...
And for the patch I really appreciate you sharing it with me. I was planning on using it in this version but my microKORG somehow didn't save the patch after I created it. If I made a third cover I will try to use it lol.
Well here it is. Don't hold anything back and tell me what you think (both of You):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IHq7p9Yj0s
And for the patch I really appreciate you sharing it with me. I was planning on using it in this version but my microKORG somehow didn't save the patch after I created it. If I made a third cover I will try to use it lol.
Well here it is. Don't hold anything back and tell me what you think (both of You):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IHq7p9Yj0s