BK-9 Serious Competition?

Reuben · Post by **Reuben** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:18 pm

Hi Rob,
Good to hear from you. Your comments on this thread are interesting. If you go ahead with your BK-9 purchase there would be many here waiting for your review and comparison with Korg (at least with the Pa2x). Personally I'm not a fan of the Roland piano sounds. Even the RD700 series (including the NX) sound rather unconvincing to me and I'm guessing the piano in the BK-9 might be based off this series. The korg strings also leave Roland behind in my opinion. Once you have played one I wonder if you might change your mind?
I think the apps and ipad connectivity are a great leap forward. Here's hoping that Korg might be able to do something for us in a future OS update.
Anyway hoping you are happy with your next purchase which ever way you go.
Very best,
John

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:24 am

Hi John,

Nice to hear from you, thanks. I've been using a Roland stage grand piano to accompany church services and singers for the last 6 years. The piano and string sounds are really good, as are the EP's. I sometimes bring the Pa2x when we are doing something needing styles, but the feedback I get is that everyone prefers the sound of the Roland piano & strings. Their piano sounds have improved since then and the BK-9 features some of the best. Of course I'll have to play one before I buy it, and they are not in the shops yet, but I'm patient!

As you know from our past correspondence, I've been trying to persuade Korg for at least 8 years to provide software or a software interface to manage sounds and styles on the Pa-series. I hoped with the Pa3x they might have been more co-operative, especially when I wrote and offered my time as a software developer free of charge, but I've now given up.

The BK-9 not only has a nice sound and style manager program running on an iPad, but there are rumors that Roland will be launching a more comprehensive application tailored for editing styles for the BK-9 in the near future. Since I own an iPad already, I'm quite keen to use it as the touch screen interface for my future keyboard arranger.

Hope you and family are well. We are busy selling our Villa in Corfu and getting ready to move back to the UK after we find a buyer. Our grandchildren in the UK need us more than the Greeks

Best regards,
Rob

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:32 pm

Here is an extensive vendor's demo of the styles and sounds on the BK-9, best listened to through headphones:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gRkTUo2fTQ

Roland have not yet published any substantial demos or tutorials, but I expect these will come shortly after Musikmesse where they are exhibiting the BK-9 at the moment.

The lack of color touch screen is to some extent compensated by the number of apps for the iPad that Roland have written. There is apparently another BK-9 iPad app being written to provide editing capabilities for onboard sounds and styles.

And there is lots of memory space available for extra sounds, samples and styles - according to one of the Roland dealers. There is no information at present whether users can create new sounds with their own samples, but this is one of things I will look into as soon as the users manuals are published.

Regards,
Rob

Yatrix · Post by **Yatrix** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:55 am

They explained that it isn't same as regular sempler ram because they use specially compression (but less lost) when they do that expansions.

Seems like I know what they are talking about. That is proprietory compersion format named RDAC (Roland digital audio compression). That is main format at present for all Roland/BOSS recorders of BR series and Roland provides free universal utility to convert WAV to RDAC and backwards.
Yes, the utility is free but you need to have BR device connected to computer to perform conversion.
But, if you are smart enough to format SD card and name it as BR device then conversion will be possible without actual BR device.
With the help of this cheaty technology I 've performed conversion of all band tracks which are included in Roland J-8 eBand just by downloading J-8 system files from Roland's site.
However, these band tracks appeared to be not so crazy interesting to jam with.

So, i think, conversion of user samples from WAV to RDAC will be possible.

Post by **karmathanever** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:41 am

Thanks Rob

That's a reasonable demo with a good variety of genres.
Not a bad little keyboard !!!!

...and 76 keys - come on Yahama.....

(Have a gut feeling that the Australian price will destroy it!!!)

Pete

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:49 pm

karmathanever wrote:Thanks Rob
That's a reasonable demo with a good variety of genres.
Not a bad little keyboard !!!!
...and 76 keys - come on Yahama.....
(Have a gut feeling that the Australian price will destroy it!!!)
Pete

Hi Pete,

Yep ... I am put off the Tyros and other Yamaha "portable" keyboards because there are only 61 key versions. Being a pianist, I want 76-keys or even 88-note weighted. Yamaha lag behind Roland and Korg because they have no 76-note arranger offering.

The Yamaha CVP609-PM arranger workstation is really nice and is the market leader for a home, club or church permanent installation, lovely sounds and great features, fantastic 88-note piano keybed, big touch-screen color display, looks beautiful. But I need something that is portable and at 81 kg it is definitely not portable! If ever they brought out an 88-note stage keyboard version of the CVP609 weighing less than 30 kg, I'd be in like a shot, no matter what the price.

The Korg Pa3x-76 was definitely a contender for me back in Jan/Feb, but I am put off because of lack of support for sounds and styles expansion and no external software interface. For eight years I have been trying to influence Korg about these deficiencies, to no avail. Both the BK-9 and PSR-S960 are well supported by the manufacturers. There are external software interfaces, lots of low-cost sound and style expansion packs, easy to manage these etc. By comparison, Korg's crummy "software" and "expansion" support for the Pa3x and the whole Pa series sucks. Sorry if I upset anyone by saying it so bluntly. I had hoped to help Korg remedy that deficiency by writing a sound and style manager at no charge, but the developers in Italy are evidently unwilling or unable to provide the necessary technical details of file formats and compression.

Paolo Tramannoni did respond in private to me, but he has no influence in the matter of getting the necessary technical details to me. The development team at Korg Italy just ignored my offer and never replied. Even if they replied now, it is too late because my time and the window of opportunity to do the work is no longer available.

The Yamaha PSR-S950 has great features, lots of audio styles and many low-cost high quality sound and style expansion packs. Lovely color display. Interface to iPad etc. If there was a 76 key version I would probably get it in preference to the BK-9.

Then there is the UK price comparison:

Yamaha CVP609-PM (88 key weighted) - 6,702 GBP
Yamaha Tyros 4 (61 key) - 4,315 GBP
Korg Pa3x (76 key) - 2,799 GBP
Roland BK-9 (76 key) - 1,699 GBP
Yamaha PSR-S950 (61 key) - 1,399 GBP

So, there's a lot of different factors to consider, but at the moment unless anything significant changes in the next few months, it looks like the replacement for my Pa2x keyboard will be a BK-9.

Best regards,
Rob

Frans N · Post by **Frans N** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:44 pm

Still too much money for what the BK 9 has to offer. Look at the PA600 what you get for 999 Euro's and has a touch screen no need to buy an expensive Ipad. I want a Nexus 7 anyway.

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:03 pm

@ Frans N,

For you, it seems you do not want more keys than 61, and you place high value on having a touch screen. Fine so the choice is different for you. And I can understand your reasons for thinking the BK-9 is too expensive. But maybe you can explain in a bit more detail why you think the Pa600 is better value than the PSR-S950?

Post by **karmathanever** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:46 pm

Rob S wrote:Then there is the UK price comparison:

Yamaha CVP609-PM (88 key weighted) - 6,702 GBP
Yamaha Tyros 4 (61 key) - 4,315 GBP
Korg Pa3x (76 key) - 2,799 GBP
Roland BK-9 (76 key) - 1,699 GBP
Yamaha PSR-S950 (61 key) - 1,399 GBP

Wow for the first time I am feeling better about Aussie prices.
The PA3X-76 is much cheaper here and you could get a Kronos-61 for less than the BK-9

Hmmmm... I guess it is pointless comparing pricing really - all the import duties and taxes drives everyone mad...

The Australian dollar is quite strong right now but if it wasn't, I don't think I would even own a keyboard - only a short while back we were paying almost double the dollars of USA prices.
PA2Xpro going for $7999 RRP at that time...

If the strange rumours regarding a "new" Yamaha arranger are true then it will be interesting to see if Yamaha have at last put some real effort into design - in fact I hope it is a total re-design.

BK-9 has its place but I couldn't even consider it even as an "extension" of styles - just doesn't have that professional authentic edge like the PA3X/600

Pete

Giner · Post by **Giner** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:48 pm

Sounds like 'Ripoff Britain' is in full swing. How is a T4 almost two grand better than an S950 to the average Yamaha home keyboard hobbyist? And £1500 or so between a T4 and a Pa3X? That's nuts.

Frans N · Post by **Frans N** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:27 am

Rob Sherratt wrote:@ Frans N,

For you, it seems you do not want more keys than 61, and you place high value on having a touch screen. Fine so the choice is different for you. And I can understand your reasons for thinking the BK-9 is too expensive. But maybe you can explain in a bit more detail why you think the Pa600 is better value than the PSR-S950?

You must compare the PA600 with the Yamaha S750. The Korg has so much more features then the Yamaha. I don't like the styles and sound of Yamaha so cheesy. I played Yamaha PSR's for years and they still sound the same. Also the keys are terrible on the PSR's.

The Roland is a nice keyboard I like the sound but is just to expensive for what you get. I can buy a 88 keys krome for less

Sam CA · Post by **Sam CA** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:15 am

Frans N wrote:I can buy a 88 keys krome for less

Yes, but Krome is not an arranger keyboard. For that matter, Kronos is cheaper than PA3x as well and it sounds 100 times better. I own both keyboards.

Frans N · Post by **Frans N** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:14 am

Assyrianpianist wrote:
Frans N wrote:I can buy a 88 keys krome for less
Yes, but Krome is not an arranger keyboard. For that matter, Kronos is cheaper than PA3x as well and it sounds 100 times better. I own both keyboards.

Ok you are right but you can buy 2 PA600's for one BK 9 and together they are 122 keys

AntonySharmman · Post by **AntonySharmman** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:57 pm

Rob's reference parameter of 76 semi-weighted keybed is very important for a pianist , I admit it since my lower
keyboard was always 76 or 88 keys , and my reference was about comparing only specifications and features !
Therefore comparison can be made only between BK-9/Pa3x/Pa2X if you want to be fair !

Frans N · Post by **Frans N** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:39 pm

You forget the Korg PA 588 and probably soon the PA688. Even better for a pianist.