Just recieved my KronosX service manual from parts is parts

[Bertotti]

Nice find! Thanks!

[lonelagranger]

Could have saved myself $15

Thanks a lot. Works like a charm. It confirms the motherboard I purchased on ebay is the same as the one installed in the Kronos X. Hope I never need it, but you never know. It was very nice of you to share.

[LivePsy]

It was a complete coincidence that Ojustaboo found a link to download the service manual. This had nothing to do with his buying the manual.

I do think its strange that manufacturers try so hard to stop the consumers from seeing inside information on their gear.

B

[Ojustaboo]

It was a complete coincidence that Ojustaboo found a link to download the service manual. This had nothing to do with his buying the manual.

I do think its strange that manufacturers try so hard to stop the consumers from seeing inside information on their gear.

B

Coincidences happen all the time.

Yesterday I commented to my wife how none of my aquarium fish had died this year. Today, less than 24 hrs later one died

Last week my wife was saying how she hasn't heard from someone in months. A couple of hrs later the phone rang and it was them.

I made a comment about Thatcher dying literally a couple of hours before it was announced she was dead leading to a Piano Forum member posting

thatcher is the one person ............

I don't know what kind of voodoo you use, but I for one plan to stay on your good side.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ed-87.html

I didn't buy the first service manual but still managed to get hold of it within a few hours of trying.

If something is available to buy I will always choose that route. I had no need to hunt out the X version as I didn't know it existed until 5 seconds before I placed the order with parts is parts.

When I found out that within one hour of me posting, it was no longer available, I thought I'd see if it had been uploaded by anyone else. Sure enough it had.

I wonder how Korg etc audit the likes of parts is parts, they could sell 2000 of a manual that's simply an unprotected PDF, all they did was attach it to a bog standard email, how does Korg know how many they have actually sold, they could tell Korg they only sold 50.

But to recap on the original point of me wanting the service manual, it was only after a Korg employee said there was hidden calibration data on the SSD hence if our SSD died, we would have to pay Korg an extortionate amount and be without our boards for a week or two and another korg forum member who managed to get hold of the original service manual backing this up.

Turns out it wasn't true at all.

I'm not posting the site so don't ask (can't even remember the exact name) while I was searching for the original service manual, I came across a site with cracked versions of most popular software such as the latest omnisphere and korg legacy products. It was quite shocking what software was on there.

Personally if I use something I like to pay for it (if the company will let me)(even paid for things like winzip on windows XP when I used it), but the fact still remains that me searching for something Korg has purposely stopped us being able to buy, is what led me to discover that site.

It's a bit like when the games etc I bought a few years ago had horrible copy protection on the CD causing the CD to be needed in the drive and it taking forever to load, meanwhile all the people that wanted pirate copies had them, didn't need the CD in and their versions loaded instantly. I would always go to those sites and download the no CD hack for the games I purchased. But many people I know started doing the same thing but once they discovered those sites, when the next game etc came out that they wanted, they simply downloaded the cracked versions without buying the original. Most of those peope only discovered those sites trying to fix products they own.

One day companies will realise that by doing this they are only harming themselves and other companies. I wonder how many other people stumbled across that site and decided to try out numerous well known software packages in their quest to get a manual to let them repair the instrument they own.

I wonder how many of the many many many people that asked me for a copy of the original service manual would have happily paid the $15 to buy it from parts is parts if korg had let them. I suspect virtually all of them.

Had the x version remained obtainable to purchase, I wouldn't have hunted out a download, if its available to buy people should buy it. But when its removed and people can't fix their own instruments due to this, well I still haven't forgiven korg for their lack of help identifying one part of my Korg Trident 27 years ago leaving me no choice but to literally give it away for free broken.

After my recent experiences with korg repair centres and after reading of others, if my Kronos fails out of warranty, I would prefer to do any repairs myself and would probably do a much better job too.

If I didn't discover that link I would have offered it free to any Kronos user that wanted it as I did the original. If korg really believe that in this day and age they can keep something like a service manual out of the product owners hands, they really have a lot to learn.

[MarPabl]

Thank you so much for that link

[danatkorg]

But to recap on the original point of me wanting the service manual, it was only after a Korg employee said there was hidden calibration data on the SSD

Not hidden per se, but yes, there is calibration data on the SSD as I've said before.

hence if our SSD died, we would have to pay Korg an extortionate amount and be without our boards for a week or two

We both know that no Korg employee ever said that to you.

and another korg forum member who managed to get hold of the original service manual backing this up.

Turns out it wasn't true at all.

Turns out what wasn't true?

- Dan

[MarPabl]

But to recap on the original point of me wanting the service manual, it was only after a Korg employee said there was hidden calibration data on the SSD

Not hidden per se, but yes, there is calibration data on the SSD as I've said before.

Yes, I've seen a hidden file regarding calibration on the SSD when cloning it. I hope you just have to backup it to be safe against the possibility of losing the SSD.

hence if our SSD died, we would have to pay Korg an extortionate amount and be without our boards for a week or two

We both know that no Korg employee ever said that to you.

What we know, and has been told here is that if you ever format and restore the Kronos with the DVD because the SSD gets bricked, then you're screwed because that calibration data will be lost forever. Therefore, I don't know why in the first place is Korg delivering a method (to the public) to screw your board when you format and restore your SSD which will leave you with an improper calibrated keybed. And the worst thing, that method doesn't even warn about that loss of the calibration data.

Further information about that discussion here: how to clean install 2.0.2 onto a new SSD?

In that thread, there's a point made saying that in the event of a format and restore, the calibration data will be magically (read silently) read and stored before the actual format. The issue is that there's no documented information, messages or any way for an end user to actually know if such data was indeed available to be saved before the formatting.

So, I agree with Ojustaboo: you'll have to be without your board (not little time in my experience and in the experience of many others here), waiting for the service center to apply the repair (or whatever it is), and I also understand that this will cost money once you're out of warranty. And all of this just because the fact that there's no enough information regarding this you have to play safe and then you have to take the board to the service center.

[danatkorg]

hence if our SSD died, we would have to pay Korg an extortionate amount and be without our boards for a week or two

We both know that no Korg employee ever said that to you.

What we know, and has been told here is that if you ever format and restore the Kronos with the DVD, then you're screwed because that calibration data will be lost forever.

Actually, we don't know that either - in fact, the calibration data is maintained.

As I've written here:

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... 511#530511

"If you use the original SSD, and do a format and reinstall from the Korg DVDs, calibration data is read from the SSD before formatting, and then stored back to the SSD."

- Dan

[MarPabl]

We both know that no Korg employee ever said that to you.

What we know, and has been told here is that if you ever format and restore the Kronos with the DVD, then you're screwed because that calibration data will be lost forever.

Actually, we don't know that either - in fact, the calibration data is maintained.

As I've written here:

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... 511#530511

"If you use the original SSD, and do a format and reinstall from the Korg DVDs, calibration data is read from the SSD before formatting, and then stored back to the SSD."

- Dan

This is exactly the issue: nobody knows. In that thread, there's a point made saying that in the event of a format and restore, the calibration data will be magically (read silently) read and stored before the actual format. The issue is that there's no documented information, messages or any way for an end user to actually know if such data was indeed available to be saved before the formatting.

So, I agree with Ojustaboo: you'll have to be without your board (not little time in my experience and in the experience of many others here), waiting for the service center to apply the repair (or whatever it is), and I also understand that this will cost money once you're out of warranty. And all of this just because the fact that there's no enough information regarding this you have to play safe and then you have to take the board to the service center.

[danatkorg]

What we know, and has been told here is that if you ever format and restore the Kronos with the DVD, then you're screwed because that calibration data will be lost forever.

Actually, we don't know that either - in fact, the calibration data is maintained.

As I've written here:

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... 511#530511

"If you use the original SSD, and do a format and reinstall from the Korg DVDs, calibration data is read from the SSD before formatting, and then stored back to the SSD."

- Dan

This is exactly the issue: nobody knows. In that thread, there's a point made saying that in the event of a format and restore, the calibration data will be magically (read silently) read and stored before the actual format. The issue is that there's no documented information, messages or any way for an end user to actually know if such data was indeed available to be saved before the formatting.

If it was the original SSD, it's there.
What is the issue, exactly?

Now, if you've violated your warranty by replacing the original SSD on your own, yes, you will have lost your calibration data. Is it possible that's the real issue that you're upset about?

- Dan

[MarPabl]

If it was the original SSD, it's there.
What is the issue, exactly?

Now, if you've violated your warranty by replacing the original SSD on your own, yes, you will have lost your calibration data. Is it possible that's the real issue that you're upset about?

- Dan

I'm not upset, I'm cocerned

If the original SSD is there and it's bricked, bye bye calibration data. If therefore it's required to apply a format & restore, then how anyone is sure there's calibration data? How can this procedure assumes a perfect working SSD with available calibration data when in the first place this procedure is applied because there are likely big issues with the SSD?

So, the point that hasn't been made is that everybody should clone the original disk and save an image because you can't just trust the SSD will have always a reliable copy of that data, and also, you can't trust the recovery disks because those may actually not recover the Kronos.

Now, the red flags:
- Why isn't this warning included on the official procedure to format & restore?
- How is that every single individual Kronos has unique calibration data? Seems like every single keybed is hand made or something similar...

[danatkorg]

If it was the original SSD, it's there.
What is the issue, exactly?

Now, if you've violated your warranty by replacing the original SSD on your own, yes, you will have lost your calibration data. Is it possible that's the real issue that you're upset about?

- Dan

I'm not upset, I'm cocerned

If the original SSD is there and it's bricked, bye bye calibration data. If anyone format & restore, then how anyone is sure there's calibration data.

Personally, I have not heard of a single KRONOS with a "bricked" SSD.

If the SSD did have a catastrophic failure, it would need to be replaced - by an authorized service center, who as part of the replacement would re-calibrate the unit.

So, as far as I can tell this is a non-issue.

So, the point that hasn't been made is that everybody should clone the original disk and save an image because you can't just trust the SSD will have always a reliable copy of that data.

Probably the reason that point hasn't been made is that it's not correct. I can categorically say that you should NOT do this, since doing so would require that you open your KRONOS, presumably voiding your warranty.

Now, the red flags:
- Why isn't this included on the official procedure to format & restore?

Because it does not affect user operation of format & restore, as I have explained repeatedly above.

- How is that every single individual Kronos has unique calibration data? Seems like every single keybed is hand made or something similar...

Most systems with analog parts going through A/Ds (joysticks, ribbons, aftertouch etc.) require calibration, in my experience. That's true for every Korg synth I've worked on.

- Dan

[jeebustrain]

If it was the original SSD, it's there.
What is the issue, exactly?

Now, if you've violated your warranty by replacing the original SSD on your own, yes, you will have lost your calibration data. Is it possible that's the real issue that you're upset about?

- Dan

I'm not upset, I'm cocerned

If the original SSD is there and it's bricked, bye bye calibration data. If anyone format & restore, then how anyone is sure there's calibration data?

So, the point that hasn't been made is that everybody should clone the original disk and save an image because you can't just trust the SSD will have always a reliable copy of that data.

Now, the red flags:
- Why isn't this included on the official procedure to format & restore?
- How is that every single individual Kronos has unique calibration data? Seems like every single keybed is hand made or something similar...

Simple. The Kronos is not a PC. Even though it may have PC parts in it, it's not. Never was and never will be. Don't expect it to behave like a PC and don't expect Korg to have to account for every DIY'er out there that knowingly violated his own warranty by modifying their Kronos. The reformat procedure they've outlined is perfectly adequate for the service model they have with the Kronos. As per their documentation, they recommend you send it to an authorized repair center. They can perform a recalibration if your SSD dies and needs to be replaced. Anything else and you are doing it at your own risk.

[MarPabl]

Personally, I have not heard of a single KRONOS with a "bricked" SSD.

If the SSD did have a catastrophic failure, it would need to be replaced - by an authorized service center, who as part of the replacement would re-calibrate the unit.

So, as far as I can tell this is a non-issue.

Neither I do. But this doesn't solve the question: how can someone tell if the SSD has or not that data when applying the procedure? How can we still asume the SSD will have that data available? How can we apply that without knowing for sure if the information will be restored or not?

So, the point that hasn't been made is that everybody should clone the original disk and save an image because you can't just trust the SSD will have always a reliable copy of that data.

Probably the reason that point hasn't been made is that it's not correct. I can categorically say that you should NOT do this, since doing so would require that you open your KRONOS, presumably voiding your warranty.

But if we don't do, then we have to take the Kronos to the authorized service center to pay money and wait who knows how much as soon as we have to apply format & restore. So this advice sounds like a bad idea in the long term. The warranty, in the end, is just a couple of years. So we're getting advised not to protect our investment and be left to the uncertainty in the long term. It's like saying: well, those threads in this forums which are tried and tested to update your SSD are good for nothing because once your SSD gets bricked (it doesn't matter if that's under warranty or not), you have to pay the repair and you have nothing to be on the safe side.

Now, the red flags:
- Why isn't this included on the official procedure to format & restore?

Because it does not affect user operation of format & restore, as I have explained repeatedly above.

I still don't get it. Nobody can't be sure if the calibration data is there or not when applying that procedure. This is a secret reveleaded here, instead of doing so in the official procedure.

- How is that every single individual Kronos has unique calibration data? Seems like every single keybed is hand made or something similar...

Most systems with analog parts going through A/Ds (joysticks, ribbons, aftertouch etc.) require calibration, in my experience. That's true for every Korg synth I've worked on.

- Dan

Can't comment further, but I haven't heard of any other workstation I've owned that you may or may not recover the factory settings when applying a full restore.

Anyway, I will believe my Kronos is hand made Now let's check this: if we can download our reauthorization code, how is that we can't download our unique calibration data so the recovery disks will be indeed a reliable recover method? In the end, the reauthorization code is used for that format & restore procedure. I don't get how is that there's not availability of the calibration data, which is also needed for such procedure to be 100% reliable.

[MarPabl]

Simple. The Kronos is not a PC. Even though it may have PC parts in it, it's not. Never was and never will be. Don't expect it to behave like a PC and don't expect Korg to have to account for every DIY'er out there that knowingly violated his own warranty by modifying their Kronos. The reformat procedure they've outlined is perfectly adequate for the service model they have with the Kronos. As per their documentation, they recommend you send it to an authorized repair center. They can perform a recalibration if your SSD dies and needs to be replaced. Anything else and you are doing it at your own risk.

I agree with you

I don't know if it's perfectly adequate. Because if you have to apply the format & restore, I just haven't heard of a way of knowing if that calibration data was able to be saved before the formatting. That kind of information should be on the procedure. Something like:
"Depending on the type of failure you have, it may be possible that your calibration data won't be able to be restored. If this happens, you'll see a confirmation message xxxx. If this happens, you'll have to send your Kronos with the authorized Service Center"

And on this situation, I'm not even talking about any "warranty violation", this is just someone applying the format & restore and knowing that maybe the SSD has failed in a way that it has to be sent to service center. An SSD may fail exactly for the areas occupied by the calibration data, so there's no way to know if the failure indeed happened on the calibration data.