Foot Pedal - Volume set to Zero when changing combinations.?

kaptainkeyboard · Post by **kaptainkeyboard** » Mon May 27, 2013 2:20 pm

I use my Kronos 73 with a Motif XF.
Every song the band performs has its own Combi with all sounds set up as required.
I use Expression pedals set to controll volume on both machines - 2 on the Motif and 1 on the Kronos.
The Motif defaults to the Expression Pedals resetting to maximum every time I change to a new song, which is a real pain in the ass (I have to reset them manually) otherwise I'm left with a huge wall of sound I don't need.

Is there any way to force the Kronos to go to Zero volume on those parts of the Combination I have sected as being under Foot Pedal control, and still bring in those sounds when required ?.

MarPabl · Post by **MarPabl** » Tue May 28, 2013 5:41 am

No AFAIK

In Combi mode, Kronos won't send automation message to change the volume level on the Motif XF.

But you may try Vector Envelope by using volume control for Combi. If the volume control on the VJ can control Motif XF, then you may initialize the volume.

ed_f · Post by **ed_f** » Tue May 28, 2013 1:54 pm

Couldn't you just set those sounds to zero in the combi and then pull them up with the controller?

kaptainkeyboard · Post by **kaptainkeyboard** » Tue May 28, 2013 3:18 pm

Thanks for your input guys, but it looks like I'll have to revert to my current method of silencing all 3 expression pedals manually (or footally ??)

The problem with using the Expression pedal to control the Volume Sliders in the Combi is:-
A typical Combi will have a Piano always active and a String Orchestra under the influence of the Expression Pedal, but the Strings may take up 4 or 5 Combi slots each with different Volume settings.
I couldn't find a way of assigning the Expression Pedal to influence all 4 or 5 Volume sliders and maintain their relative levels.

I've been using this method of playing for decades now (ever since MIDI was invented) and I find it gives me ultimate control over every sound required in any given song.
I can have 4 different sounds (2 in the Kronos and 2 in the Motif) all "Playing" at the same time, but you don't hear them until I bring them in with the Expression pedals - great for doing Brass Stabs and scaring the s**t out of my wee Bass Player buddy, or some very expressive orchestral arrangements on the fly.

ed_f · Post by **ed_f** » Tue May 28, 2013 5:46 pm

kaptainkeyboard wrote:Thanks for your input guys, but it looks like I'll have to revert to my current method of silencing all 3 expression pedals manually (or footally ??)

The problem with using the Expression pedal to control the Volume Sliders in the Combi is:-
A typical Combi will have a Piano always active and a String Orchestra under the influence of the Expression Pedal, but the Strings may take up 4 or 5 Combi slots each with different Volume settings.
I couldn't find a way of assigning the Expression Pedal to influence all 4 or 5 Volume sliders and maintain their relative levels.

I've been using this method of playing for decades now (ever since MIDI was invented) and I find it gives me ultimate control over every sound required in any given song.
I can have 4 different sounds (2 in the Kronos and 2 in the Motif) all "Playing" at the same time, but you don't hear them until I bring them in with the Expression pedals - great for doing Brass Stabs and scaring the s**t out of my wee Bass Player buddy, or some very expressive orchestral arrangements on the fly.

I understand more now about the problem - it is an interesting question. Will be thinking about this one.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Tue May 28, 2013 8:00 pm

How about if you edit your programs to respond to CC#04 (foot pedal) in the amp section, setting the starting value at zero?

kaptainkeyboard · Post by **kaptainkeyboard** » Tue May 28, 2013 9:13 pm

Now there is a good idea Sander, I'll give that a go in the morning...thanks for your suggestion.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Tue May 28, 2013 9:32 pm

kaptainkeyboard wrote:The problem with using the Expression pedal to control the Volume Sliders in the Combi is:-
A typical Combi will have a Piano always active and a String Orchestra under the influence of the Expression Pedal, but the Strings may take up 4 or 5 Combi slots each with different Volume settings.
I couldn't find a way of assigning the Expression Pedal to influence all 4 or 5 Volume sliders and maintain their relative levels.

Just a note: in Combis, both Expression pedal (CC11) and Volume pedal (CC7) will do exactly this, modulating volume while maintaining their relative levels. (CC7 works differently in Sequencer mode.)

Of course, if you're wanting to store the volumes as 0, then their volumes are all the same to start with, and if you modulate them then they'll stay the same.

Unfortunately editing the Program Amp to 0 and then modulating upwards doesn't work; this is one aspect of the voice structure that I find inconvenient, and I'm sorry for that.

On the bright side, the KRONOS does maintain the pedal state across Program/Combi changes, so you can move the pedal all the way back, change the sound, and the pedal will still be in the minimum position - no need to move it again. You've probably already figured that out, however.

kaptainkeyboard · Post by **kaptainkeyboard** » Tue May 28, 2013 10:00 pm

Thanks for taking time out to answer Dan.
I have to zero the Motif expression pedals manually at the minute, so I guess I'll have to get into the habit of pulling back on the Kronos pedal.....when you are my age, that is easier said than done - every time I learn something new, I forget stuff I've know for years, like the time I leaned how to make scones and forgot how to put my car in reverse all of a sudden...

Bakerman · Post by **Bakerman** » Wed May 29, 2013 7:34 pm

I think Karma CC Offsets (Param. Guide pages 474-475) will do what you want. You can generate up to 4 CCs per module selecting the combi, so send a 0 value on the Motif channel for the pedal CC#s. Uncheck "run" for all modules unless you want to actually use Karma for other things, save combi w/ Karma on.

kaptainkeyboard · Post by **kaptainkeyboard** » Wed May 29, 2013 8:57 pm

Another good idea Bakerman.
I know what you mean inside my head, but I'll need to do some serious reading on Karma to put it into practice - I'll have a go and see how far I get.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Wed May 29, 2013 9:37 pm

The KARMA route may do what you need but when I used an expression pedal to control KARMA values (by assigning CC#11 globally to KARMA slider 1) I've gotten glitches, as if the KARMA engine needs time to catch up when I make quick or continuous movements of the pedal. Just something to be aware of and try out!

I wonder why my earlier solution wouldn't work, I need to try that out.

Bakerman · Post by **Bakerman** » Wed May 29, 2013 11:57 pm

SanderXpander wrote:The KARMA route may do what you need but when I used an expression pedal to control KARMA values (by assigning CC#11 globally to KARMA slider 1) I've gotten glitches, as if the KARMA engine needs time to catch up when I make quick or continuous movements of the pedal. Just something to be aware of and try out!

I wonder why my earlier solution wouldn't work, I need to try that out.

This is slightly different from what you're thinking of--CC offset just sends the value once, when the combi is loaded or whenever Karma is turned on. The pedals would work normally after that, directly controlling whatever they're set to control.