outstanding lead sounds

[laandodeman]

Hmmm, I have been tweeking quite some hours now to remake the Little Phatty wah (see previous post) on the MS20, no luck so far. Anyone have a hint of how to create a similar wah-lead sound? Or should I trade my Kronos for a Little Phatty

(Just kidding)

My problem is that I don't understand what exactly is the essence of a wah-wah effect. It's not the same as opening and shutting your low pass filter, but what is it then?

[SanderXpander]

A wah is essentially a band pass filter. Coloration by resonance and harmonic distortion may cause differences between wahs.

[laandodeman]

Thanks for the quick reply Sanderxpander! I will try to tweak a bit with a BPF then.

But do you also understand how the Little Phatty lead of the video I posted works? After all, in that video, no BPF is used? Is it the specific characteristic of the overdrive on the Phatty?

[QuiRobinez]

Hmmm, I have been tweeking quite some hours now to remake the Little Phatty wah (see previous post) on the MS20, no luck so far. Anyone have a hint of how to create a similar wah-lead sound? Or should I trade my Kronos for a Little Phatty

(Just kidding)

My problem is that I don't understand what exactly is the essence of a wah-wah effect. It's not the same as opening and shutting your low pass filter, but what is it then?

you could do it on the MS-20 or AL-1. The AL-1 has a thicker sound but the MS-20 is easier to program.

For that 'wah wah effect' on the ms-20 connect a wire on the patch panel from the Joystick to the Total Input, then open the dial on the front panel for the total input so that your modwheel controls the filter section. After that just add Osc2 and detune it a little and add some insert effects to phatten up the sound.

For a small patch example of this (with just one osc) see my MS-20 patch tutorial and skip to 12:00 to see this wah-wah patch routing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv7O95Gc2EY

In the AL-1 you have more possibilities and you can get a more aggressive sound like the one shown in the moog video. But then you have to program your own filter and a lot of other parameters to get close to the result shown in the video, explaining how to do this would need a lot of text, so the ms-20 approach is much easier to accomplish.

If you got a Korg M3 you could also download my jordan rudess lead which you can download here: Jordan Rudess Lead QR for the M3, then you could see how it's done in korg parameter style

[SanderXpander]

A Moog LPF can sound somewhat like a band pass filter in the sense that it cuts a lot of lows at higher resonance settings. But I hadn't actually seen the video until just now, sorry. I should have said the classic guitar effect known as wah wah is a band pass filter. You can definitely get wah like sounds with a LPF on a synth, as demonstrated there on the Phatty. I think the Phatty's overdrive and filter have a very distinct sound, and a lot of powerful Moog analog character, that is particularly hard to emulate on a digital synth, and for sure on the Kronos. None of the engines are naturally very close to it. The MS20 is a good synth for programming leads but its filter sounds vastly different. Which engine have you been trying?

[postman]

I have created a lead sound with the AL-1 witch works pretty well for me. (not with the wah effect, but musicsound was asking for some programs to download).

You can find it in my latest package on korgpatches.com: http://korgpatches.com/patches/kronos/pjpsoundfiles02

It is patch U-EE 023: PJP PWM Lead OMNI sw1,2
PWM is not right, because the double saw is used, but it is modulated. With sw1 you get the 5th added and wit sw2 you get some overdrive. I was inspired by the sound in Omnisphere, therefore the OMNI in the name.

[postman]

I have tried to do the Analog Wah on the Al-1. To get the sound I used the 12dB Low Pass. Moog has a 24 db low Pass, but it can also be used as two pole filter. Not sure what is used in the video. Also important to use the AMP driver and low boost. A bit of noise adds to the dirt. I think I have come pretty close with the following settings:

OSC/Pitch:
OSC Basic:
OSC1: Saw, Initial Phase: Random (for more analogish unpredictability)
OSC2: Saw, Initial Phase: Random, Tune:+1, Frequency Offset: +00.1
Edge: 0
OSC SUB: Noise Generator: Filter Frequency: 11 (I think there is some
noise in the video too?)
Mixer: OSC1 Level: 99, OSC2 Level: 77, Noise Level: 20
Pitch Common: LFO AMS Aftertouch Intensity: +00.30 (personal taste)
Filter:
Basic: Serial
Filter A: Type: Low Pass, Frequency: 40 Fine: -17, Resonance: 80, Full
Filter B: Type: High Pass, Frequency: 2, Resonance:0
Filter Mod: (Use Joystick or Ribbon if you don't have a Foot Pedal)
Filter A Modulation AMS1: Foot Pedal (CC#04) Intensity: +23
Filter B Modulation AMS1: Foot Pedal (CC#04) Intensity: +23
Amp/Driver: Drive: 99, Low Boost: 84
Common EQ: Mid Cutoff: 1.25k Mid Gain:+4, High gain: +00.5

And of course some delay and reverb. I used L/C/R Delay and Reverb Dry Plate on MFX 1 and MFX 2. But you can use what you like.

[postman]

I forgot to say, but is probably obvious: the common settings have to be set to mono and mono legato.

[laandodeman]

Postman, you are my heroe! You did it. I don't know how, but your settings work!!! I searched for a sound like this for years!
Thanks man

I just hope one day I understand how you did it and be able to program this kind of stuff myself.....

Quif, thanks to you as well for the excellent tutorial of the MS20. This helps me to master the modulation panel.

[postman]

Thanks, glad to have helped!

[jeremykeys]

Postman, I'm going to check it out too. Thanks!

I am going to try and use it together with an MS-20ex sound using the filter sweep form Qui's tutorial. That plus a little distortions and delay should give me a brutal lead sound. The trick will be to have the MS-20's pitch bend to be able to bend down 2 octaves and up a whole tone.

I also want to get after-touch to add vibrato. I'll let you all know how this goes.

Wish me luck!

[KevinH]

Interesting idea Jeremy. I just programmed Postman's AL-1 lead last night. Thanks for the info Postman, it sounds great! Qui's lead is part of his Shiny & Rough MS-20 sound set, so it gives me a good starting point on that part of the sound. I'm going to give your idea of combining the two a try this weekend and see how it turns out.

[postman]

Good luck!
Below some tips concerning the vibrato and pitch bend in MS-20.

One way to get aftertouch on the vibrato is:
Make an AMS Mixer:
Mixer type: Amt A xB
AMS A: LFO 1, Amount: 0
AMS B: After Touch, Amount: 50
On the Osc & Filter tab: Transpose button: AMS: AMS Mixer 1, Intensity: value you like.
You can play both with the Amount on the after Touch in the AMS mixer and in the Transpose button.

To get the pitch bend to go two octaves down and one whole note up is a bit harder:
Osc & Filter tab: Frequency Modulation EG 1/EXT: 6.55
Patch Panel tab:
select the modulation output (with the wheel above it, lower right corner): AMS: JS X, Int:+10.00 and connect it to VCA IN
Right from the modulation output is another output (with a white block above). Settings: AMS: JS X, Int:-10.00. Connect it to VCA CONTROL input.
Connect the VCA OUT to FREQ.

Hope you can follow it, it is a bit hard to explain without images.

[postman]

Okay, I tried the MS-20 too. Unbelievable what a sound MS-20 EXi can make. I was not that comfortable in programming it, but it shows to be a real beast. Of course very different to the AL-1, it screams at you. Instead of drive I have no used a little feedback and use the filter even more as bandpass. Here are my settings:

COMMON Basic/Vector tab: Voice Assign Mode: Mono and Mono Legato.
OSC & Filter tab:
- OSCILATOR 1 WAVEFORM: SAW
- OSCILATOR 2 WAVEFORM: SAW, PITCH: +00.05
- VCO 1 LEVEL and VCO 2 LEVEL both to max (10.00)
- HIGHPASS FILTER: CUTOFF: 4.09, AMS: JS+Y, Intensity: +2.5. HPF PEAK: 1.70
- LOWPASS FILTER: CUTOFF: 8.23, AMS: JS+Y, Intensity: + 2.5. LPF PEAK: 2.36
- ANALOG: 3.07
MG,EG, & Mod tab:
- ENVELOP GENERATOR 2 SUSTAIN LEVEL: 10.00
- MIXER 1 LEVEL A: +01.60
Patch Panel tab:
- Connect PHONES to IN A of MIXER 1.
- Connect OUT of MIXER 1 to EXT SIGNAL IN
Furthermore the settings as described in my previous post for controlling the vibrato with aftertouch and the bend range settings of two octaves low and one whole tone up. And of course some reverb and delay.

PS: Play with the amount of feedback and things are really getting dramatic.

[postman]

One other thing: I set the EQ MID to boost a bit around 1.7 kHz. Gives the sound some more presence.