R3 midi/sequencing and playing live

vortmaxx · Post by **vortmaxx** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:44 pm

Greetings. Please forgive my ignorance as I am relatively new to the world of sequencing.

I picked up an old Yamaha sequencer today and am having fun so far playing with the classic "On The Run".

I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to play the R3 over the sequence without disrupting the sequence, and if so, how to do this.

It would seem that a proper selection of midi channel would be in order, but so far I have not been able to figure anything out from the manual.

Thanks in advance for your understanding, and any advice.

Matt

DaniH · Post by **DaniH** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:07 pm

It is possible to do this. All you have to do is "split" the keyboard sound in the editor. I forget what the notes are for On The Run and do not know what notes you plan to use but it is possible to do so.

vortmaxx · Post by **vortmaxx** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:32 pm

Hi DaniH, thanks for the response. I tried splitting- that sort of works. It seems that I can modify the Timbres separately this way, to some extent, but I haven't figured out how to keep some of the parameters separate. For example, I cannot seem to adjust the cutoff or the panpot on Timbre 2 without affecting Timbre 1, but I'll keep trying as I've already discovered some new ways of thinking about it.

Thanks again.

Matt

vortmaxx · Post by **vortmaxx** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:43 pm

Ok, so I'm hoping I can squeeze a little more guidance out of someone here.

I've split the keyboard and am using Osc 2 for Timbre 1, and Osc 1 for Timbre 2. I'm in the Mixer (P.07) trying to get the levels even as Timbre 2 (Osc 1) seems to be quite a bit louder.

Now, when I'm editing Timbre 1, I have the Osc 2 level maxed, with Osc 1 set to zero as I'm not using it for this timbre. When I go to edit Timbre 2, I crank the Osc 1 level and zero out Osc 2 as again, I'm not using it on this Timbre.

However, when I go back to edit Timbre 1, the mixer (P.07) shows me that Osc 1 is cranked and Osc 2 is zeroed.

I'm having similar difficulties with the LFOs and the EG parameters, so I'm wondering if these are global parameters. I do not seem to be experiencing these issues with pitch-bend or the mod-wheel.

Again, your understanding, along with any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

OpAmp · Post by **OpAmp** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:08 pm

Hi,

At first sight, it's ok what you are doing.
Strange. When set up properly in 2-timbre mode, all these parameters should be editable separately per timbre. Are you sure on the 2 timbres?

Maybe when you switch back to Timbre1, try to turn the page select button to update the displays? (I don't have an R3 - so I'm not sure how exactly it behaves concerning display update. I know it's sound structure though.)

Do I understand it correctly that you make separate settings per timbre for pitch bend and mod wheel? And that's working fine?

Bye.

Re-Member · Post by **Re-Member** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:26 pm

If you have a sequencer connected as noted below, it's possible that the sequencer is receiving and then sending back CC data to both timbres.

R3 MIDI OUT > Yamaha MIDI IN
Yamaha MIDI OUT > R3 MIDI IN

R3's Split Mode by default has both Timbres operating on the same Global MIDI channel (channel #1), so what you want to do scroll to page 1 (Voice), then set "T2MIDIch" to a different MIDI channel. That should stop Timbre 1 from effecting Timbre 2 and vice versa if your connection is creating a MIDI loop.

vortmaxx · Post by **vortmaxx** » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:37 pm

Thanks for the replies. I got a little sidetracked this weekend but am getting back to this little endeavor this afternoon.

Maybe when you switch back to Timbre1, try to turn the page select button to update the displays?

HA! I had tried this already- it didn't work, but it's nice to know someone else out there is thinking like me.
Yes, the pitch/mod wheels are set differently for each timbre, and are responding independently.

R3's Split Mode by default has both Timbres operating on the same Global MIDI channel (channel #1), so what you want to do scroll to page 1 (Voice), then set "T2MIDIch" to a different MIDI channel.

T2MIDIch is only available when in "Multi" mode on P.1 Voice. I tried selecting different midi channels on P.42 MIDI, but again, when I assign a different channel to say Timbre 2, and then go back to Timbre 1, it shows that Timbre 1 has also been switched to the "new" MIDI channel selected for Timbre 2.

For clarification, I have both Timbres set to "Split" mode, mono, with "Unison" on P.2 set to "off". I have the split point set up to play the main sequence using Timbre 2- it sounds really nice. Timbre 1 is then set up to play on the lower half of the keyboard.

The main problem seems to be in the mixer, as I cannot get the volumes of the independent Timbres to match up...T2 is significantly "hotter" than T1. However the fact that the independent parameters (i.e. panpot, amp levels) are not behaving independently tells me that something is just not right.

OpAmp · Post by **OpAmp** » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:52 pm

Hi!

I don't understand exactly what you mean by:

I have both Timbres set to "Split" mode

Probably you mean it correctly, but for the sake of avoiding misunderstandings: you can set the program to Split mode, which at that moment makes timbre 2 available. I.e. the mode is in fact a program feature and not a timbre feature.

Some suggestions:
* Try to hook up the R3 to your PC and edit the program using the editor. Gives a bit a better overview.
* Try a new init program to start from?
* Try to remove all midi connection before editing (to avoid possible loops or recorded mixer settings as part of a performance)
* (Less advisable - factory reset?)

Bye.

Re-Member · Post by **Re-Member** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:46 pm

vortmaxx wrote: T2MIDIch is only available when in "Multi" mode on P.1 Voice. I tried selecting different midi channels on P.42 MIDI, but again, when I assign a different channel to say Timbre 2, and then go back to Timbre 1, it shows that Timbre 1 has also been switched to the "new" MIDI channel selected for Timbre 2.

You should explain how you have your MIDI cables connected to your sequencer, because to me it still sounds like you need to try setting it to Multi Mode so that Timbre 2 operates independently from Timbre 1 on a different MIDI channel. Another alternative is scrolling to menu P.43 and disabling all the data options so that only note messages will be handled through MIDI.

The MIDI channel you're adjusting on P.42 is actually the "Global" MIDI channel which both timbres operate on. Since they are both sending and then receiving data on this same channel, depending on how your MIDI cables are set up, this could be causing a "boomerang" data effect where one timbre ends up editing the other when you try to adjust any of the parameters that operate with CC messages.

vortmaxx · Post by **vortmaxx** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:14 pm

M editor does not appear to be working anymore, which is strange because I used it a few months ago to upload a string sample to the R3. I spent a little time yesterday trying to run the editor in previous versions of Windows, to no avail. It opens, but I cannot "see" any of the programs on the R3. More frustration.

So I took the sequencer out of the equation for the moment. When it was hooked up, I had the MIDI OUT from the R3 plugged into the MIDI IN on the sequencer, with the MIDI OUT from the sequencer to MIDI IN on the R3.

I was pretty content with the sound of Timbre 2, which I was using for the sequence, and was trying to tweak the sound of Timbre 1 when I began to notice the parameters of Timbre 2 were changing/updating while editing Timbre 1.

Thanks again for all the replies. I'm still having some fun, even though I can't quite get it to do what I want. I have some friends who werre talking about doing (attempting) a "Dark Side" show and it would be really nice if I could pull this off.

Re-Member · Post by **Re-Member** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:52 pm

vortmaxx wrote:So I took the sequencer out of the equation for the moment. When it was hooked up, I had the MIDI OUT from the R3 plugged into the MIDI IN on the sequencer, with the MIDI OUT from the sequencer to MIDI IN on the R3.... parameters of Timbre 2 were changing/updating while editing Timbre 1.

Bingo. I'm now 99% certain what I've been trying to explain is causing the problem. Your MIDI connection is causing a data loop where one timbre ends up sending data to the sequencer, then simultaneously bouncing it back to the synthesizer causing it to edit the other timbre as well. I posted two solutions that should fix the problem, so make sure you try them out.

vortmaxx · Post by **vortmaxx** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:17 pm

THAT'S IT!!

P.43 MIDI Filter....I had Program and Control change set to "enable". Disabling these two parameters seems to allow me to edit the pan-pot on Timbre 1 in real time without affecting Timbre 2, so I think I'm on track now.

Still have some more tweaking to do, working with the LFO now and trying to get some of that "doppler" effect on Timbre 1, but I am 1 giant step closer now thanks to you.

1 million blessings on you and your family. When I get something worth listening to I will definitely post a recording.

Thanks again. You Rock!

Re-Member · Post by **Re-Member** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:58 pm

Awesome! Glad to hear that fixed it. I've been working with MIDI for quite a few years, so I know it can be a nightmare trying to trouble shoot this stuff, haha.