WaveDrum External Trigger Modification , EXP Pedal and more

WaterDrum · Post by **WaterDrum** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:33 am

how good is that news ?

After 2 1/2 years ....
if you have questions I might have answers
are you planning the basic mod (=1x head 1x rim+exp pedal)
or are you into some advanced integrated modifications ?
or a small breakout box ?

actually I think that Korg has only forgotten
to connect the audio inputs (=triggers) of this synthesizer...

you will be surprised , esp. with "Blend&Boost"

PS: please dont forget to make some pictures ....

How good · Post by **How good** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:49 pm

Looking forward to it...

I plan to be minimal at first.

Will add 2nd piezos to rim and head if possible, to get increased sensitivity quickly.

Then I hope to add the basic outputs you describe for clips, pedals, mics (have you tried singing through the WD algorithms?) and the Blending.

And finally, would love to find a simpler way to edit in realtime. I'm just beginning and would rather spend my "learning curve time" creating a direct editing mechanism than winding my way through Korg's cost-saving minimal button hierarchy... As I mentioned in another post, am thinking of making a pedal board from a Basic Stamp to do this, but we'll see...

WaterDrum · Post by **WaterDrum** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:31 pm

Will add 2nd piezos to rim and head if possible, to get increased sensitivity quickly.

I added a 20 mm glue on piezo to the head and connected it to the head jack
20 mm is rather small and glue-on is not as good as contact through foam material (=Wavedrum system) , so this alone did not increase sensibility , a booster was needed.27 mm and 35 mm and foam contact is better.
At the moment I am considering an internal booster for each head and rim
even with 2 holes drilled for potentiometers.
Still I want to avoid to have a knob at my wavedrum ,it could break off easily .

(have you tried singing through the WD algorithms?) and the Blending

.
a little bit
works best with short percussive sounds
+you hear the singing and noises

And finally, would love to find a simpler way to edit in realtime

.
with a Stereo recorder you can playback triggerloops and fully concentrate on 2 handed editing , very easy

creating a direct editing mechanism than winding my way through Korg's cost-saving minimal button hierarchy... As I mentioned in another post, am thinking of making a pedal board from a Basic Stamp to do this, but we'll see...

Now I am more than curious ...
keep us updated

How good · Post by **How good** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:03 pm

Thank you for that. I'll try larger piezo's today. Was thinking of on/off switches for the boosters, but a potentiometer is a better idea. They have micro pots which could be flush with the casing, and turned with a screwdriver, or fingernail in a pinch. They'll likely be left alone for most sounds.

Curious, have you tried a mic as an internal sensor? It's a totally different signal than a piezo, but I wonder what effect the cleaner signal would have through the WD effects...

WaterDrum · Post by **WaterDrum** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 pm

I'll try larger piezo's today. Was thinking of on/off switches for the boosters, but a potentiometer is a better idea

.
Experiment with all sizes .You will find your best solution .
Anyway its an extremously easy and cheap mod .

They'll likely be left alone for most sounds.

For me its useful to make adjustments during playing to emphasize certain elements of the sound .
My volume pedal is very important .

Curious, have you tried a mic as an internal sensor? It's a totally different signal than a piezo, but I wonder what effect the cleaner signal would have through the WD effects...

Internal mic , not yet ... external only
There is still enough to explore ...
A mic alone is not strong enough , you´ll need a preamp or a mic2line converter .The low impedance of the mic will also be a shortcut for the head piezo and deactivate it .
on the rim its different as you have 2 independent piezos .
check it out ...
I would suggest , that you make the basic mod at first (maybe already solder additional cables to each jack) , then you will be very busy making music and experimenting for a while and then ... you will know , what you could do next

eg. what I am missing now with Blend&Boost is the possibility for an easy head boost. I need to cut the head piezo cable and probably will mount a 27 or 35 mm piezo and a pot . That is on my to do list .
low quality but useful for testin , these guys :
http://www.thomann.de/de/the_sssnake_1852_yadapter.htm

How good · Post by **How good** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:22 am

Experiment with all sizes .You will find your best solution

Hopefully the 45mm I put in today will do the trick... May have to use a smaller one (35 or 27mm) for rim. I wonder what a direct mount on rim will do (without foam)... probably super-sensitive?

For me its useful to make adjustments during playing to emphasize certain elements of the sound .
My volume pedal is very important .

Makes sense. I like the idea of the volume pedal.

A mic alone is not strong enough , you´ll need a preamp or a mic2line converter .The low impedance of the mic will also be a shortcut for the head piezo and deactivate it .
on the rim its different as you have 2 independent piezos

Gotcha. Shorting the piezos could have been the cause of much head scratching. I'm unclear about the 2 rim piezos - connecting the mic in parallel wouldn't short them?

make the basic mod at first (maybe already solder additional cables to each jack) , then you will be very busy making music and experimenting for a while and then ...

You're right. Easy to get lost in mod-land. But while I have my geekhat on, and before I start exploring/tweeking the sounds, I'd like to find a cheap and dirty way to make the editing process more fluid. Hope to get to it by tomorrow. We'll see.

low quality but useful for testin , these guys :
http://www.thomann.de/de/the_sssnake_1852_yadapter.htm

Hmm... How do you use the Y-adapter for testing? (head scratching...)

WaterDrum · Post by **WaterDrum** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:55 am

the 45mm I put in today will do the trick... I wonder what a direct mount on rim will do (without foam)... probably super-sensitive?

If you go very very far then at one point you will face false triggering from outside noises (on the head , not the rim).
Never tested this on stage ....
similar problem and I´m still waiting for an answer :
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... f969d9c281
I am curious about the different sizes on the rim .

I'm unclear about the 2 rim piezos - connecting the mic in parallel wouldn't short them?

the rim jack only connects to one of the two piezos .
Dont ask me why , its just working without rim sensibility decrease .

you could solder both rim piezos to one input at the rim connectorboard (polarity!)
dont know ??
A mic signal without a preamp is not strong enough to trigger .

Hmm... How do you use the Y-adapter for testing? (head scratching...)

parallel connecting of 2 piezos ,
I am using 1/4 jack guitar pedals in my "modular" system
connecting the outs of 2 boosters ,
split or lead together an FX chain(s) ,(for testing only , a small mixer is better)
external triggering of the rim from a real drum and at the same time Blend&Boost
bad build quality , I try to avoid them , but a quick solution .
Y cable is better :
http://www.thomann.de/gb/pro_snake_tpy_2003_pbb.htm
my EQ/Booster (+15 dB)
http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_eq100.htm
I also use the bass version of it .Both are good .
btw
what area do you live ?
Silver or Oriental ?

How good · Post by **How good** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:11 pm

The Bride of Frankenstein has arrived...

Did the internal boosters and external jacks, in a marathon planning, cutting, soldering session yesterday...

!

I had decided originally to add internal boosters because the headphone signal (of my Silver Wavedrum) was too weak.
But as a newbie, it's hard to tell how much a difference they really make. Additionally, the pots don't seem to affect them at all...

But I'll continue experimenting with them to see what gives...

The jacks work great.
No, GREAT!
Responsive and perfect. I've plugged in the soundclip from the mini and it sometimes gives an entirely different range of a sound.
And I understand how you discovered the crosstalk effect. With triggers off the body of the WD, you get the pure sound of either the rim or head without any crosstalk. Very different, very clean.

Happy.
Will share pix soon.

I still have to do some cleaning up, gluing pots in place, etc. but the next goals are to mess with different ways of triggering the pressure sensor...

And all importantly, an external hardware editing pedal...

With this in mind, I have a question:
Under the control panel are 2 + 5 wires. The 2 are for the the pressure sensor, so the other 5 carry all the editing control.

If I can figure out what kind of signal they're sending, I can start exploring ways to control them with an external pedal or Basic Stamp setup.

My goal is a pedal board with a button for each major editing parameter, then an expression pedal that changes the variable.

Any thoughts, ideas on ways to approach this?

And what editing parameters have you found are essential vs. rarely used?

Onward...

WaterDrum · Post by **WaterDrum** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:21 pm

The Bride of Frankenstein has arrived...

this has raised the number of modded WDs by 100%

The jacks work great.
No, GREAT!

my words since 2 1/2 years

Q: Is the MINI soundclip a 35 mm one ?

without any crosstalk. Very different, very clean.

yeah , there are many variations of the basic sound , sometimes (rim) its like one more instrument.
And what is best ... its free .
somehow its weired , as you seem to be a WD newbie (Mini is different)
and immediately modified it .Was it a used one ?

With this in mind, I have a question:
Under the control panel are 2 + 5 wires. The 2 are for the the pressure sensor, so the other 5 carry all the editing control.
If I can figure out what kind of signal they're sending, I can start exploring ways to control them with an external pedal or Basic Stamp setup.

dont really know , this guy maybe ?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/mQC6Q0nfmDc" frameborder="0"></iframe>

I could only imagine to hardwire the 5 buttons (+ground)
out to a 5 footswitch pedal , but imo that does not make the editing easier or faster.
"What and Where" ...thats it . edit1 and the manual , have fun .
unless you are good in reverse engeneering , coding and programming ...

My goal is a pedal board with a button for each major editing parameter, then an expression pedal that changes the variable.

And what editing parameters have you found are essential vs. rarely used?

its maybe helpful if a footswitch brings you to a group of parameters eg, to volume , decay or to edit2 hd1-4 then you use a button on the WD thats faster , I mean there are ca 52 parameters for a single algo preset ,
so quite a big footpedal ...

How good · Post by **How good** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:22 am

-

my words since 2 1/2 years

That's great to hear...

Q: Is the MINI soundclip a 35 mm one ?.

No. It looks more like 20mm. Strange, you mentioned internally 20mm didn't give much of a response. I didn't open it fully but don't think there's extra circuitry in it.

somehow its weired , as you seem to be a WD newbie (Mini is different)
and immediately modified it .Was it a used one ?

Yes, it's used, and its my first WD (silver). Even the mini is a few weeks old. But I knew from research: looking at YouTube vids, reviews, and here in the forum, that I'd want to increase the sensitivity, try ways to make editing easier, and as a drum set player, add pedals for hi hat and bass drum. If Id gotten my WD 2 1/2 years ago, we probably would have been modding together. I'm constantly modding my stuff... But greatly appreciative of your experimentation and experience. (and your heads' up, on and offline

)

[/Qote]dont really know , this guy maybe ?

Yes. I saw this video before but hadn't remembered it. It's a great suggestion. I'll see if fhere's a way to reach him...

I could only imagine to hardwire the 5 buttons (+ground)
out to a 5 footswitch pedal , but imo that does not make the editing easier or faster.

Yes, that would just replicate the buttons on the WD. My thinking is to make a foot pedal board with, say, 8 buttons (could be doubled with an A/B switch) which are basically MACROS (I.e. they activate edit1 mode by simultaneously pressing Band+Edit1 buttons, then go thru the next two levels directly to the specific parameter to be edited. Then, use an expression pedal to edit the parameter.
[the 2nd level is the tricky part, since the WD stays at the last edited parameter, so the starting point varies every time you enter edit mode.

"What and Where" ...thats it . edit1 and the manual , have fun .
unless you are good in reverse engeneering , coding and programming ...

Do you mean that edit1 is your most common edit area? Overall, do you think are 8 editing parameters that are more important than the others? Or is 16 (or 24) more realistic?

its maybe helpful if a footswitch brings you to a group of parameters eg, to volume , decay or to edit2 hd1-4 then you use a button on the WD thats faster , I mean there are ca 52 parameters for a single algo preset ,
so quite a big footpedal ...

Yup. That's the idea. But I'm going for hands free, if possible. I may just settle for Korg's system of editing, but since I'll do a lot of editing, and there's a a lot of button pressing, learning curve, it might be worth some time looking for an alternative method...

What's intriguing are those 5 wires running from the control panel. That means all 52 editing parameters are simplified to 5 wires (maybe even 2, since 2 may be power and 1 sending the pressure info(?)). It's probably very common electronics. Don't know if it will be accessible.

The thought just occurs to me that if Korg's engineers ever look at this forum, they must really have a chuckle...

BTW, New York.

WaterDrum · Post by **WaterDrum** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:17 pm

If Id gotten my WD 2 1/2 years ago, we probably would have been modding together.

would have been even more fun .

encoding the "button-signals" :
the signals in the 5 lines are all digital
I still can write small DOS batchfiles , thats all
but I do have some very basic understanding what a microprocessor is...
too digital for me ...

Do you mean that edit1 is your most common edit area? Overall, do you think are 8 editing parameters that are more important than the others? Or is 16 (or 24) more realistic?

sometimes you need to jump between vol1-4 and tune
decay: set 1x and good is
edit2 jump to edit1 tune and back
back to vol to single out a sound ...and so on .
best is maybe to get a workflow without too much jumping .

feed a prerecorded audiotriggerloop to the head ,
select an algo
start to isolate vol1= 100 , vol2-4=zero
start tune decay
goto edit2 (+manual)
make "the sample run"
use two hands first , this will be 3x faster than the usual learning curve

Or is 16 (or 24) more realistic

vol , (dec) , tun , (Alg) , edit2= 4 times
thats makes already 8 (6) groups of parameters

if Korg's engineers ever look at this forum

about 2 years ago I sent them my pictures (possibilities).
I do know they received them + the forumadress ...

well , its not only musical . but also technical creativity around .
everything can be connected , this is 2013 ..

btw: http://www.imageshack.com/

How good · Post by **How good** » Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:38 pm

the signals in the 5 lines are all digital

In contemplating this, I'm feeling a bit like one of those chimps who only needs enough time to compose a symphony.

In any case…
If it's Digital, maybe a possibility is: determine which are the pertinent digital wires for editing. Then with a microprocessor or computer "listen" to those wires and record the digital information from each button press while editing. (Possible?)

If so, then make a pedal board that sends the code for each parameter. No need to understand the code, just copy and paste.

Or, could the sd card be a storehouse of the necessary codes? To copy then fire at will...

I know. Wishful thinking. Probably all of it…

But easier editing, plus realtime handsfree editing while playing... Seems worth wishing for...

Pix of "the bride" forthcoming.

Hinsel · Post by **Hinsel** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:00 pm

... the next goals are to mess with different ways of triggering the pressure sensor...

Hi,
I got rid of my internal pressure sensor (the whole rubber thing) and connected this HotPot potentiometer:
http://www.watterott.com/de/HotPot-Foli ... eterr-50mm

It was too big- so I cut all the edges and glued it to the wavedrum.
The further left I press that thing, the more muted the sounds are.

Now I can mute the Head sound (the actual vibration of the head)
AND
mute the electronic side of the sound.
Also – it is easier to hit the right note (when the pressure changes the note value)
And the rebound of the head is much better.

I thought about adding another pressure sensor - that doesn't sense position but pressure - like this one:

http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/5033 ... ggest=true

but for now I'm happy with position sensing.

Here is a picture:

http://s14.directupload.net/file/d/3412 ... 67_jpg.htm

WaterDrum · Post by **WaterDrum** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:02 pm

Hi Hinsel ,
Cool , you made the modification ,
SD card , rim trigger in and a Ribbon Controller

This ribbon controller solution looks very good
I read that its ohmic resistance ranges from 100 to 10 000 Ohm .
my question : if you dont touch it , does it have 10kOhm or
is the "non touch ohmic resistance" higher .
What I remember is , that the pressure effect starts at about 25 kOhm .

Translated to WD speak :
do you get the full range of a sound (totally open to absolutely muted)?
does it just simply work ?

Now I can mute the Head sound
AND
mute the electronic side of the sound.

I like this "AND" in capital letters .
There is so much more to a WD than Korg offers , and its really fun to explore .
I will for shure get me one of these hot potz

Maybe in combination with a fader pot ??

btw : No head Trigger In ? If you want to get a taste of "Blending"
you can attach an external glue-on trigger for 12 bucks to the head ,
connect an EQ/Booster and feed this to your rim input ... its that easy .

Hinsel · Post by **Hinsel** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:37 pm

Hi,
Yes – I made the modifications right away, after freestok found the microSD card inside the WD.
That was a happy day!
After opening the WD I saw the piezos – and I knew I would connect at least another one.

To your question: Yes - you get the full range of a sound – but not the full range of the position sensor.
But there is more than enough room to find the right spot/mute amount.
A 2nd sensor (pressure, not position) on the rim (positioned at 8 o'clock) is probably a good idea, too – to mute both aspects of the sound simultaneously with the left palm (the vibration of the head AND the electronic mute).