R3 Midi CC

Clearwater2 · Post by **Clearwater2** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:01 pm

Hi guys. I need help desperately. I am using the R3 with a sampler that detects midi information when it is sent from another device. It will detect program changes in addition to midi cc. I have disabled the program change. pitch bend and systemex midi filter settings and have only enabled the midi cc setting; this way I know that any key or button being pressed or knob being turned from the r3 is only sending midi cc and not the other values if I see a midi light light up on my external unit. I have already figured out what midi cc numbers the formant motion on/off and rec buttons are sending, but I do not know what midi cc numbers the arpeggiator on/off and latch buttons are sending. Please help me if you know. Thanks.

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:26 pm

You can figure this out on your own by pressing the buttons and using MIDI-OX to see the CC events, in case there's any others you need to use.

When I press the Arp On then Off, then the Latch On then Off, I get the following CCs:

TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
Opened MIDI Input
Opened MIDI Output
00005AAA 2 3 B0 63 00 1 --- CC: NRPN MSB
00005AAA 2 3 B0 62 02 1 --- CC: NRPN LSB
00005AAA 2 3 B0 06 7F 1 --- CC: Data Entry MSB
00005C2A 2 3 B0 63 00 1 --- CC: NRPN MSB
00005C2A 2 3 B0 62 02 1 --- CC: NRPN LSB
00005C2A 2 3 B0 06 00 1 --- CC: Data Entry MSB
00018384 2 3 B0 63 00 1 --- CC: NRPN MSB
00018384 2 3 B0 62 04 1 --- CC: NRPN LSB
00018384 2 3 B0 06 7F 1 --- CC: Data Entry MSB
00018AE4 2 3 B0 63 00 1 --- CC: NRPN MSB
00018AE4 2 3 B0 62 04 1 --- CC: NRPN LSB
00018AE4 2 3 B0 06 00 1 --- CC: Data Entry MSB

Clearwater2 · Post by **Clearwater2** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:27 am

Thanks xmlguy. I don't currently have midiox. I do not know what these numbers mean in terms of a single cc number. Can you translate for me please. I need to control my sampler through the r3 controller's functions and I wanted to use the midi cc# map on the r3 to change the existing cc numbers of the arpeggiator/latch buttons to match that particular cc number received on my sampler for a specific parameter.

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:49 am

You can download midi-ox for free. Those numbers are in hexadecimal.

CC 63 in hex is CC 99 in decimal, which is CC NRPN MSB, meaning:

Control Change Non-Registered Parameter Number Most Significant Byte

CC 62 in hex is CC 98 in decimal, which is CC NRPN LSB, meaning:

Control Change Non-Registered Parameter Number Least Significant Byte

CC 06 in hex is CC 06 in decimal, which is CC Data Entry MSB, meaning:

Control Change Data Entry Most Significant Byte

So basically, ARP on is a NRPN 00 02 127 (in decimal), while off is NRPN 00 02 00.

You can use the Scientific mode of the Windows calculator to convert hex to decimal.

http://www.philrees.co.uk/nrpnq.htm

Clearwater2 · Post by **Clearwater2** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:23 am

Xmlguy. I'm kind of new to this whole computer and music integration. When you say, "ARP on is a NRPN 00 02 127 (in decimal), while off is NRPN 00 02 00" how did you arrive at this conclusion based on the CC99, CC98, and CC08 from the previous lines? The sampler that I am controlling does not recognize nrpns it only recognized cc#s so I guess I can't use the arp on/off and latch buttons with it am I right?

You know I always dreaded trying to learn nrpn. Midi CC is much simpler. I guess I have no choice now. Thanks for your time. Appreciate it bud.

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:30 am

NRPN is a kind of midi CC message. There are CC messages that are defined by midi, like aftertouch. There also can be CC messages for things that were not defined by midi, but you want to control anyways, and those CC are defined as NRPNs. The NRPN CC is signaled with a pair of events - a Most significant byte followed by a Least significant byte. Both bytes are significant - so this just determines the order that they are sent - MSB followed by LSB. After the NRPN CC is signaled, a Data value follows which represents the parameter value.

So turning the Arp on requires three separate midi CC messages (in Dec.):
CC 99 NRPN MSB = 00
CC 98 NRPN LSB = 02
CC 06 Data Entry MSB = 127

Turning Arp off can be done two ways:

If the last CC messages were those above, then you can turn if off with just another Data Entry event:
CC 06 Data Entry MSB = 0

If you aren't sure whether there were other CC events sent last, then you turn it off with the full 3 events:

CC 99 NRPN MSB = 00
CC 98 NRPN LSB = 02
CC 06 Data Entry MSB = 0

So when I was saying "ARP on is an NRPN 00 02 127", I was referring to the whole sequence of events as NRPN 00 (MSB) 02 (LSB) 127 (Data Value) which are represented by the sequence of CC 99, CC 98, and CC 06.

Therefore, to know that the Arp button is turned on/off, you have to be looking for 3 CC events in a particular sequence. There may be other kinds of midi events in between that don't matter, like midi timing events.

Clearwater2 · Post by **Clearwater2** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:56 pm

Thanks xmlguy for the added info and for being the ONLY one to assist despite all of the views from nosy nellys. No really I appreciate it. It helped to make a lot of things more lucid. Peace.

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:35 am

Glad to help. Don't worry about the other folks not posting...they may not have had anything to add because I answered the question. It doesn't mean that other viewers were ignoring you. I frequently look at threads and don't respond because one of the many other regulars here has answered the question well and I have nothing to add, but it doesn't mean I'm not interested when I don't post.

bkanick · Post by **bkanick** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:51 pm

Would anyone know the CC# for sending the ARP speed to the R3?
Thanks, Nick

analoguekid · Post by **analoguekid** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:43 pm

And some of us ain't got a clue what this is on about LOL, I am deffo 80's tech minded when MIDI was in its early days, where it was plug in the leads and see what happens

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:45 am

MIDI really hasn't changed much since it was invented. We're only finding new and interesting ways to utilise it. But all of this so far was intended in the original design.

Anyway, there is no CC for sending the ARP Speed. That is determined by the tempo. If your R3 is in External Clock mode then you can synchronise it with incoming MIDI Clock messages from another device. But that's about it.

bkanick · Post by **bkanick** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:30 pm

X-Trade wrote:MIDI really hasn't changed much since it was invented. We're only finding new and interesting ways to utilise it. But all of this so far was intended in the original design.

Anyway, there is no CC for sending the ARP Speed. That is determined by the tempo. If your R3 is in External Clock mode then you can synchronise it with incoming MIDI Clock messages from another device. But that's about it.

That surprises me, in that the R3 editor sends a command to the keyboard via USB to change the arp speed in the program. It is odd that the makers would limit possibilities in this way.

thehighesttree · Post by **thehighesttree** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:42 pm

I think he means the Arp resolution, which can be set to varying fractions of the tempo. I'm never with my R3 when I'm posting so I don't know if this is something that can be controlled via MIDI. Also, having seen XML's response, I think it's safe to say that most if not all of us aren't fit to stand in his shadow as far as technical spec knowledge is concerned; my entire rig is MIDI linked and I have no idea what's going on at the level he's described.

bkanick · Post by **bkanick** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:02 pm

thehighesttree wrote:I think he means the Arp resolution, which can be set to varying fractions of the tempo. I'm never with my R3 when I'm posting so I don't know if this is something that can be controlled via MIDI. Also, having seen XML's response, I think it's safe to say that most if not all of us aren't fit to stand in his shadow as far as technical spec knowledge is concerned; my entire rig is MIDI linked and I have no idea what's going on at the level he's described.

I know some other devices, the Novation Supernova for instance, responds to CC#9 from Sonar X3, so there is a routine, I don't know weather it is in Sonar or in the SuperNova, that is translating the standard CC assignment into the proper command. My guess is that this is part of Sonars ins. Instrument definition) file. What I wonder is, since the exterior controller (R3 editor) is sending information across the USB, what form is that information? If I were able to find that out, perhaps I could write a routine in the ins. file to take care of it. Unfortunately documentation for the R3 is rather sparse.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:00 pm

Well of course all parameters can be controlled. But probably by sysex or nrpn which are more abstract and usually vendor-specific ways of setting parameters.

actual tempo is always locked to the device's tempo which is only really intended to match the tempo of your song. Few people go beyond that because either they are going about it entirely wrong or doing something really experimental.