Jeez you guys are negative, if it isn't for you its not for you.
Doesn't mean it's not for others though.
A new Workhaus for a Music Production?
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
I spoke to Virus, they said TI doesn't work with the new MacPro USB 3 ports and to use a hub.chilly7 wrote:I see. I would advice u to ask Virus too,maby the did something wrong too so USB not working propertly because other USB devices then Virus work perfectly?BobTheDog wrote:Yep fully updated, still problems with powering off, not helped by the system log showing a successful shutdown! Grrrrrr.chilly7 wrote:[Did u puted the latest firmware?
i remember it had some issues in the time of realise and Apple made update very quickly.
Also as i know Apple has a free telephone u can call them, maby they can help u?
I have tried with four hubs and the TI doesn't like any of them.
Concerning calling Apple Support, I have always found this a thankless task as they seem to know quite a bit less than me!
What's wrong with external HDDs? I think they are even better then internal HDDs... Same with SSDs.SanderXpander wrote:Yay! I can't wait to buy a 500 buck box to add basic functionality to my 4000 buck computer! :pchilly7 wrote:If u need PCI slots then get thisSanderXpander wrote: Of course, it helps that any expansion cards which normally obstruct airflow can't be fitted at all
http://www.magma.com/expressbox-16-smart
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echoexpress3r.html
Same goes for HDDs.
Kinda spoils the design if you have to have external stuff with cables and their own looks constantly hooked up.
My Youtube chenel: https://www.youtube.com/@user-br3rk3su6b
If u put all that in regular computer u will get bulky and noise galore and heat desctop tower, but the cool thing about modular design is that u can put all ur noisy stuff in the the sound resistent case and conect that to the new Mac Pro and have totaly silent computer.Timo wrote:chilly7 wrote:U can put external HDrives to box or closed so they do not make noise.
I have this one http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10600 4TB version and it is noisy even though it is fan less so i put it in to desk so it does not make noise and connect it to Mac via Thunderboltchilly7 wrote:If u need PCI slots then get this
http://www.magma.com/expressbox-16-smart
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echoexpress3r.html
External PCI-express rack-units... external hard-drives... Bulky. All at extra cost. And wires and noise galore.
Destroys the form-factor and design theory of the Mac Pro, no?
You may as well get a normal tower unit and be able to install anything and everything into it, away out of sight. Modular, functional, practical, cheaper, and with no trailing wires.
P.s.
but also if u need RAID of HDDs or SSDs u still need to go external because usully u can put about 4 HDDs in to regular computer, ofcause some PC can have even maby 8 but still it is not good and i am not even speaking about a huge amount of heat and noise it will generate inside the regular computer.
U do not need to be audio ingenier to hate noise, even house wife might hate noise and noiseless computer is a gem for awrybody i think.
My Youtube chenel: https://www.youtube.com/@user-br3rk3su6b
-
SanderXpander
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 7860
- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:23 am
Dog Bob, will u do ur review of ur new toy?
My Youtube chenel: https://www.youtube.com/@user-br3rk3su6b
Well it is a mixed bag.
The form factor of the old MacPro is far superior, more internal storage, PCIe, firewire etc.
The new MacPro is very quiet though which is a major advantage.
The USB3 on the MacPro seems to be some sort of "Apple USB3", I have been having great trouble with USB2 and USB3 devices on it, maybe they made it so bad that you have to use thunderbolt!
The disk is pretty amazing, transfer speeds and seek times are very good.
External storage is a bit of a pain, thunderbolt cables are too short so you need any raid system to be pretty close to the machine, and they are noisy. I am still looking for a solution here but I think the only way is to use an isolation box directly underneath the MacPro, more bloody money!
For the work I am doing I would say that the machine is around 3 times quicker than my old 8 core 2009 MacPro so I am pretty happy with that.
The issue with it not shutting down has stopped but still shutdown times vary greatly, from between 3 and 20 seconds.
Some things run amazingly quicker, Live 9 starts in a couple of seconds, on my old machine this was at least 30 seconds.
Logic doesn't seem to be able to make use of the power of the machine, using the logic benchmark http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... ktest.html the new MacPro can hit nearly 200 tracks with my FF800 but there is a lot of spare CPU, they really need to upgrade Logic to use more processing threads. My old MacPro could manage 140.
Startup time is very good, around 3-5 seconds to the login prompt.
Startup time of Windows 8 running as a VM is around 10 seconds.
Resume time for Windows 8 as a VM is around 3 seconds.
The form factor of the old MacPro is far superior, more internal storage, PCIe, firewire etc.
The new MacPro is very quiet though which is a major advantage.
The USB3 on the MacPro seems to be some sort of "Apple USB3", I have been having great trouble with USB2 and USB3 devices on it, maybe they made it so bad that you have to use thunderbolt!
The disk is pretty amazing, transfer speeds and seek times are very good.
External storage is a bit of a pain, thunderbolt cables are too short so you need any raid system to be pretty close to the machine, and they are noisy. I am still looking for a solution here but I think the only way is to use an isolation box directly underneath the MacPro, more bloody money!
For the work I am doing I would say that the machine is around 3 times quicker than my old 8 core 2009 MacPro so I am pretty happy with that.
The issue with it not shutting down has stopped but still shutdown times vary greatly, from between 3 and 20 seconds.
Some things run amazingly quicker, Live 9 starts in a couple of seconds, on my old machine this was at least 30 seconds.
Logic doesn't seem to be able to make use of the power of the machine, using the logic benchmark http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... ktest.html the new MacPro can hit nearly 200 tracks with my FF800 but there is a lot of spare CPU, they really need to upgrade Logic to use more processing threads. My old MacPro could manage 140.
Startup time is very good, around 3-5 seconds to the login prompt.
Startup time of Windows 8 running as a VM is around 10 seconds.
Resume time for Windows 8 as a VM is around 3 seconds.
Bob the dog, Shuting time on my mothers Mac Book Air 13 is the same long too as u have. I noticed it when i started to use TimeCapsule, i think it might be because of Time Capsule, but it is not really that big deal becase i restart my computer rarely, and when shuting down i do not need to wait.
My Youtube chenel: https://www.youtube.com/@user-br3rk3su6b
-
NuSkoolTone
- Approved Merchant
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:38 am
I got into a full blown battle royale with another fellow on a different forum regarding this machine. The funny part was in the end he didn't even own one, was not about to, yet boasted about "money no object", and found his qualifications as an "IT pro" didn't even include a college degree! In other words: Full tilt fanboi who's overdosed on the Kool-Aid. But I digress...
My take after going back and forth of us "educating each other" and personal research:
Depending on who you are, it's a great/fast machine. BUT:
For Audio guys, I'd say it's not for us. Especially for a commercial place. Though if you throw enough money at it you can make it "Work" and it will be great for a few years. Buy a ThunderBolt chassis and tons of adapters for what used to be on the machine (i.e. firewire), possibly an isolation booth, and the cost of all the extra parts and a place to put it all and you're all set!
When you're done though you could easily be pushing $10k US.
Doing the Numbers, the price for just the MAC PRO itself is actually pretty good and hard to match if you built your own. It's the form factor and need to buy "accessories" that screws the pooch.
I agree all the external boxes and wires take the whole "Chic" thing away and makes it pointless other than the cooling. The noise is back because you have boxes there with you again anyway.
As a "Roll your own" kind of guy you can build a SICK machine for less than half that with room to grow and NO need for an extra chassis. Though the only caveat is the "bleeding edge" Processor is not yet available as a part for PCs . Since rarely does the software take advantage of "Bleeding edge", I generally build at the "Cutting edge" level with room to grow/upgrade as time goes on.
Lastly, it's kind of a "throwaway" machine. Everything is pretty much proprietary apple. The video cards it has are BADASS for 2014. Though down the road it's doubtful there will be many 3rd party upgrades available unless you can disable and throw new ones in your TB chassis provided it's not already full by that point. Or buy ANOTHER TB chassis assuming with everything you don't tap out the bandwidth. Same goes for the SSD. No matter what, you'll need something to archive to eventually unless you trust "the cloud".
IMO this is a great machine for Video guys who upgrade every couple of years and don't mind dumping a few grand on a new system vs. upgrading an existing system.
There also is an assumption about Thunderbolt catching on. Some companies have gotten on-board, but not all. Right now it's pretty much an "Apple Thang". Last I checked unless you buy specific motherboards it's a challenge to get Thunderbolt on PC. There's simply not much out there. AFAIC, Thunderbolt is only fragmenting the market and wreaking havoc on equipment makers and dividing their userbase.
If you want to be really pissed at apple, look at the origins of Light Peak. it's an INTEL technology which Thunderbolt is Apple's watered down version of with a proprietary connector (Display port). Originally it was supposed to be backward compatible to USB3 (See Sony's CORRECT implementation with Power Media Dock http://www.theverge.com/2011/10/14/2490 ... light-peak) but none of the bigger computer companies wanted to play because was too expensive at the time. Apple decided to "Appleize" it so it became "Theirs" and to hell with everyone else (THANKS APPLE!)
Personally I've gained a mistrust for Apple as they drop technologies like a hot potato the moment it suits them or to force "obsolescence" to sell new wares. There is no way to know if Thunderbolt will be any different IMO. The current Mac Pro could prove to be a very expensive trash can pun intended
Now please forgive my bias, but that's my take from the "Non-Mac" camp
My take after going back and forth of us "educating each other" and personal research:
Depending on who you are, it's a great/fast machine. BUT:
For Audio guys, I'd say it's not for us. Especially for a commercial place. Though if you throw enough money at it you can make it "Work" and it will be great for a few years. Buy a ThunderBolt chassis and tons of adapters for what used to be on the machine (i.e. firewire), possibly an isolation booth, and the cost of all the extra parts and a place to put it all and you're all set!
When you're done though you could easily be pushing $10k US.
Doing the Numbers, the price for just the MAC PRO itself is actually pretty good and hard to match if you built your own. It's the form factor and need to buy "accessories" that screws the pooch.
I agree all the external boxes and wires take the whole "Chic" thing away and makes it pointless other than the cooling. The noise is back because you have boxes there with you again anyway.
As a "Roll your own" kind of guy you can build a SICK machine for less than half that with room to grow and NO need for an extra chassis. Though the only caveat is the "bleeding edge" Processor is not yet available as a part for PCs . Since rarely does the software take advantage of "Bleeding edge", I generally build at the "Cutting edge" level with room to grow/upgrade as time goes on.
Lastly, it's kind of a "throwaway" machine. Everything is pretty much proprietary apple. The video cards it has are BADASS for 2014. Though down the road it's doubtful there will be many 3rd party upgrades available unless you can disable and throw new ones in your TB chassis provided it's not already full by that point. Or buy ANOTHER TB chassis assuming with everything you don't tap out the bandwidth. Same goes for the SSD. No matter what, you'll need something to archive to eventually unless you trust "the cloud".
IMO this is a great machine for Video guys who upgrade every couple of years and don't mind dumping a few grand on a new system vs. upgrading an existing system.
There also is an assumption about Thunderbolt catching on. Some companies have gotten on-board, but not all. Right now it's pretty much an "Apple Thang". Last I checked unless you buy specific motherboards it's a challenge to get Thunderbolt on PC. There's simply not much out there. AFAIC, Thunderbolt is only fragmenting the market and wreaking havoc on equipment makers and dividing their userbase.
If you want to be really pissed at apple, look at the origins of Light Peak. it's an INTEL technology which Thunderbolt is Apple's watered down version of with a proprietary connector (Display port). Originally it was supposed to be backward compatible to USB3 (See Sony's CORRECT implementation with Power Media Dock http://www.theverge.com/2011/10/14/2490 ... light-peak) but none of the bigger computer companies wanted to play because was too expensive at the time. Apple decided to "Appleize" it so it became "Theirs" and to hell with everyone else (THANKS APPLE!)
Personally I've gained a mistrust for Apple as they drop technologies like a hot potato the moment it suits them or to force "obsolescence" to sell new wares. There is no way to know if Thunderbolt will be any different IMO. The current Mac Pro could prove to be a very expensive trash can pun intended
Now please forgive my bias, but that's my take from the "Non-Mac" camp
Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth
Hello NuSchoolTone
i extremely disagree with u that new Mac Pro is not for audio guys, because actualy i am saving money to get it.
I think the true advantege of this machine is that it is very powerful while even under heavy load it can stay noisless. (i do not know even other solutions even with liquid cooling that is that noisless as new Mac Pro).
Compleins about that it does not heav internal harddrive bays or PCIe slots actualy i think are not well though because if it had all this hardrives or expansion cards inside computer they would creat a big heat and noise so it is better to keep that external in sound proffe exncloser anyway.
Saying that the new Mac Pro is not upgradable is not that thrue.
U can add RAM, change CPU( only Ivy Bridge architecture, because Haswell requiers different socket)
Other World Computing makes flash storages for MacBook Air and Pro, so they might make for Mac pro too or better at my opinion will be this http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10621
speaking about video card, i am not shure if big guys like AMD or NVidea will make something for Mac Pro, or maby if the next gen Mac Pro will apear there will be upgrades...
P.s.
And i think the new Mac Pro is actualy like a modular synth in a way.
i extremely disagree with u that new Mac Pro is not for audio guys, because actualy i am saving money to get it.
I think the true advantege of this machine is that it is very powerful while even under heavy load it can stay noisless. (i do not know even other solutions even with liquid cooling that is that noisless as new Mac Pro).
Compleins about that it does not heav internal harddrive bays or PCIe slots actualy i think are not well though because if it had all this hardrives or expansion cards inside computer they would creat a big heat and noise so it is better to keep that external in sound proffe exncloser anyway.
Saying that the new Mac Pro is not upgradable is not that thrue.
U can add RAM, change CPU( only Ivy Bridge architecture, because Haswell requiers different socket)
Other World Computing makes flash storages for MacBook Air and Pro, so they might make for Mac pro too or better at my opinion will be this http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10621
speaking about video card, i am not shure if big guys like AMD or NVidea will make something for Mac Pro, or maby if the next gen Mac Pro will apear there will be upgrades...
P.s.
And i think the new Mac Pro is actualy like a modular synth in a way.
My Youtube chenel: https://www.youtube.com/@user-br3rk3su6b
-
NuSkoolTone
- Approved Merchant
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:38 am
I can appreciate that. It's nice apple made the CPU upgradeable for once (a first I've heard). Not nice you'll most likely have to toss RAM to upgrade with more as most of the slots are already filled. I never said it "wasn't expandable" I said it's expandable "If you throw enough money at it"chilly7 wrote:Hello NuSchoolTone
i extremely disagree with u that new Mac Pro is not for audio guys, because actualy i am saving money to get it.
I think the true advantege of this machine is that it is very powerful while even under heavy load it can stay noisless. (i do not know even other solutions even with liquid cooling that is that noisless as new Mac Pro).
Compleins about that it does not heav internal harddrive bays or PCIe slots actualy i think are not well though because if it had all this hardrives or expansion cards inside computer they would creat a big heat and noise so it is better to keep that external in sound proffe exncloser anyway.
Saying that the new Mac Pro is not upgradable is not that thrue.
U can add RAM, change CPU( only Ivy Bridge architecture, because Haswell requiers different socket)
Other World Computing makes flash storages for MacBook Air and Pro, so they might make for Mac pro too or better at my opinion will be this http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10621
speaking about video card, i am not shure if big guys like AMD or NVidea will make something for Mac Pro, or maby if the next gen Mac Pro will apear there will be upgrades...
P.s.
And i think the new Mac Pro is actualy like a modular synth in a way.
You're hedging an expensive bet on "might make for mac pro" IMO. $1300 for a single 1TB hard drive is pretty expensive in my book, but that's me. However there are better bang/buck options I've read. I'm not a mac guy so I don't "Get it". All the software I use is available on PC and none of the Apple exclusives are worth the change to me.
I stand by my original statements, but what works for me doesn't work for everyone else and that's what makes the world go round
Last edited by NuSkoolTone on Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth
So huw much?BobTheDog wrote:Not the first time that cpus have been user upgradeable on MacPros, 2009 and on models are user upgradeable.
How much to you think 1TB PCIe 1GB/sec drives are? Maybe you should do a search.
My Youtube chenel: https://www.youtube.com/@user-br3rk3su6b
http://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/26/mac-pro-racmount/
Docking station for Mac Pro and PCIe expansion
Hopefuly it will be noisless as new Mac Pro...
Docking station for Mac Pro and PCIe expansion
Hopefuly it will be noisless as new Mac Pro...
My Youtube chenel: https://www.youtube.com/@user-br3rk3su6b
-
NuSkoolTone
- Approved Merchant
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:38 am
Fine. For me they're $1k for a 1TB/1GB/s.BobTheDog wrote:Not the first time that cpus have been user upgradeable on MacPros, 2009 and on models are user upgradeable.
How much to you think 1TB PCIe 1GB/sec drives are? Maybe you should do a search.
Since I don't need that kind of throughput (I do audio afterall) It's half that for the SSD I would get.
Truth be told(and admittedly this is apples and oranges) , so long it's quiet I could do fine with 7200 rpm/64mb cache for a whopping $60. Though these days I don't buy that small anymore. I could get 4TB of the same spec. Make it two of them for $500 and not only do I have 4x the storage, I have full raid redundancy which if you do pro work is a must. I have yet to a have a modern hard drive not keep up with a project even running a solid 100 tracks as drool worthy SSD is. Though next machine will have that for boot disk!
Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth