Kronos X as replacement DAW

kompozer · Post by **kompozer** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:15 pm

Ha, yes, I do need editing! But . . . I don't need microscopically detailed editing, the kind that requires a large screen. I'd rather just play the parts as I want them, imperfections and all. But that's just me. I agree, if you really want to tweak, the Kronos is not the best. All I'm saying is it works great for me and can work for others too if they are willing to accept its limitations. Remember what the Beatles did with 4 tracks of tape.

KJandKT · Post by **KJandKT** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:51 pm

Good and valid points from both sides. I am a one-man band so what I would be doing basically is recording synced tracks from my Korg Arranger and Motif XS and then overlaying vocals with harmonies and maybe a guitar track...the most I would record at one time would be 2 tracks. So from that aspect I would be fine. I too love the simplicity of the all-in-one and the basically crash-proof aspect...no driver hassles, expensive FX plugs etc.... Maybe they will make the sequncer better and more usable like piano roll editing and such in a firmware update or in the next version of the Kronos.

From what I hear the Kronos FX also are really good...16 quality efx at one time...pretty sweet.

Can you take a vocal track you record export it as a wav to edit it and then import it back in with it being in sync again?

Thanks and God bless!

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:54 am

Reasons to work on a computer instead of a Kronos;
1. Better editing (not just microscopic, ANY kind of copy/paste/cut/move/delete is easier)
2. Way more screen real estate leading to a better overview of your song and possibilities
3. More flexibility in fx (routing, application and number)
4. Better specialty processing (e.g. Pitch correction, noise reduction, really you should see the new Melodyne ARA integration with Sonar and Studio One)
5. Virtually unlimited hardware configuration (I/O, RAM, storage, midi devices)
6. Easier to fit any budget. While the Kronos hits a good price point when you combine all features, you can get a good DAW from 1500 bucks up to any amount, depending on the features you need and the money available.
7. Compatibility with major name VST/AU manufacturers for the best and most up to date fx, synths and sample libraries
8. Better metering (!) (!!!)
9. Unlimited number of audio and midi channels, not just for playback but also for multiple takes, logical splitting, parallel processing etc.
10. Record at any sample rate and bit depth and write to any common audio format.
11. Score to video (!)

I still love my Kronos, and I do appreciate that you don't have to spend time fiddling with drivers or settings so much. But for me, any time spent doing that is earned back ten or even a hundred times by how much quicker and more efficient I am when I'm actually recording/editing/mixing. I couldn't even do many of the things on the Kronos that I do routinely on my DAW (e.g. Melodyne vocals, quantize audio, side chaining one band of a multiband compressor, using more than two busses, tracking multiple takes on a single track for easy comping, etc.). There is just no contest at all.

I don't mean to put you off the Kronos, I think it is a GREAT board and it would be a great "starting point" as a sound machine and midi controller for a studio if you don't have those yet. But if you're at all serious about recording, I'm just afraid you'd be very disappointed very quickly. And with all due respect, ProTools 7 doesn't represent a modern DAW workflow anymore. Midi editing was never great in ProTools, and version 7 lacks many of the advancements in audio that have happened in the last few years. So don't use that as a point of comparison.

Definitely, definitely do NOT count on a sequencer upgrade for the Kronos. While many people have asked for it and Korg has been generous with its updates so far, there has been no indication that it is even being considered, so you should not base your buying decision on that expectation.

Finally, yes you COULD export your vocal track as a WAV, edit it and later paste it back in. But, as a point of comparison, when I need to fix a note in a vocal comparison, I select the area with the mouse, press CTRL-M which makes Melodyne pop open with that area already analyzed, I shift the note to wherever I want it and I'm done. This takes me literally less than ten seconds.
In your case you'd be lucky if you'd manage it in under ten minutes. For me, that would really take any fun out of making music, not to mention my clients would be very upset

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:08 am

you can get a good DAW from 1500 bucks up to any amount,

Wow SanderXpander! Glad I didn't have to pay that!

Corgy · Post by **Corgy** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:36 am

KJandKT wrote:Can you take a vocal track you record export it as a wav to edit it and then import it back in with it being in sync again?

Yes you can and as far as you don't change the timing of the track you should have no problems to put it back in place later.

It depends on what you want to do. As SanderXpander pointed out, if there is something like voice correction required, you will end up with a tool like Melodyne, iZotope Nectar or others and those are mostly VSTs, hosted by a decent DAW. If you want to do correction by overdubbing only, I think, you can do that with the Kronos (negleting the time until you meet the quality you are looking after). But the picking out of a flawed note - doesn't work here ...

BTW you could consider to purchase a light edition of a DAW (like SONAR, Ableton Live, etc.) and get a professional VST-Tool just for vocals too. But doing so, the entire recording/mixing job would be feasible with the DAW and outperform any editing you could do on the Kronos - for sure.

jeremykeys · Post by **jeremykeys** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:52 pm

Bertotti wrote:
you can get a good DAW from 1500 bucks up to any amount,
Wow SanderXpander! Glad I didn't have to pay that!

I'm buying the artist version of Cubase for $270 plus sales tax.

Yes you can spend a lot more than that but for a home studio I don't see the need unless you are recording your whole band in your home and think that 64 tracks won't be enough. The more expensive version does have more features but for me it's a case of cost versus features. That and my side says I've spent enough after we get the computer and a desk for it and the mixer!

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:28 pm

Yea I'm sure it was a typo. I am thinking SanderXpander meant 150, I was just poking fun at it. I just picked up Logic pro x for 180, it has way more then I will ever need but the price was good and it is something I had a little experience with which makes it more comfortable.

I do agree with the OP though, it would be nice to have a solid all in one. I am not comfortable with the Kronos sequencer and for me that is important.

jeremykeys · Post by **jeremykeys** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:29 pm

I'm sure it was a typo too. Sander ;who has helped me a lot; lives in Holland and I'm not entirely sure what the cutrrency therer is. It could really be 1,500 something or other. Just not North American dollars.

It nevr occured to me just how much physical work would be involved in upgrading my studio. Moving furniture is not fun. Especially finding out how much dust you have!

Anybody want a pair of cats? Don't tell my wife!

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:51 pm

Moving any room around is a pain! Always a wonder what you find hidden in them spots you never can reach until an object is moved!

jeremykeys · Post by **jeremykeys** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:49 pm

I found my wifes baseball glove! And a lot of dust!

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:19 am

SanderXpander wrote:Reasons to work on a computer instead of a Kronos;

[snip...]

But for me, any time spent doing that is earned back ten or even a hundred times by how much quicker and more efficient I am when I'm actually recording/editing/mixing. I couldn't even do many of the things on the Kronos that I do routinely on my DAW (e.g. Melodyne vocals, quantize audio, side chaining one band of a multiband compressor, using more than two busses, tracking multiple takes on a single track for easy comping, etc.). There is just no contest at all.

+1. Go computer DAW, you'll never go back.

That doesn't mean skip using a Kronos. It means using the Kronos with a DAW. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu May 01, 2014 1:33 pm

Funny that the discussion turned to the price of the DAW I named instead of all the other features/benefits I listed

1500 was 1000 for a reasonably fast computer, 200 for a basic soundcard with some connections, and 300 for a software package including some sounds. That doesn't include a keyboard yet. Fair is fair, the Kronos is hardware so I don't think you can put the price of a single software package against the Kronos directly. I thought that was obvious from the context but I should have specified. My DAW cost me thousands, counting everything I have and use now. I have to admit having bought a whole load if software that I probably didn't "need"

Still, for 1500 you can get started and expand as you will.
Oh and also, I'm with Stephen, I love my Kronos and am happy I have it. I don't use it in the studio as much as I could but that has more to do with hauling it than anything else (since I do use it a lot live). I just think it's a bad idea to use it to replace a computer DAW.

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Fri May 02, 2014 5:38 am

Just poking fun SanderXpander, but I am glad it hasn't cost me 1500! I am perfectly happy with logic pro x.But adding vst/au etc will add up over the next few years. NI stuff isn't cheap, omnisphere is another 4 or 5 hundred, adds up fast!

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri May 02, 2014 6:27 am

No offense taken, I'm merely pointing out, again, that the Kronos is more than a software package. You're a Mac user so you also spent at least a thousand bucks on your computer, unless you went for the cheaper two Minis.
Of course you can use your computer for more things than making music, but not everyone has the kind of specs on their office machine that they would need/want on their DAW computer.

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Fri May 02, 2014 11:00 am

Very true.