using the mod wheel to control volume

Shutoku · Post by **Shutoku** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:29 am

I mentioned in my volume pedal thread, I recently read a review of the Kross in keyboard magazine (shared by the Korg Kross Share facebook page)
In the review the author mentions using the wheel to bring strings in and out of a layer of strings and piano.
If I go to the strings sound I indeed can vary the volume, but I'm not seeing how the setting is created so I could reproduce the effect in my own combi's

So for example, lets say I want to create a combi with many different sounds, assigned to a couple controllers etc.
However from the Kross keyboard I have pipe organ and choir...I want to bring the choir in and out using the wheel.
Any advice?

castorex · Post by **castorex** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:43 am

I am a beginner with the Kross, but I think it is related to AMS Mixer which is the function provided by Korg to modify or combine different parameters/controllers to transform or create new values.
If you choose Piano+String factory program the AMS Mixer shows, for OSC2 which is the oscillator for strings in this example, a transformation of the Exp. Velocity value by the inverse ModWheel action (-99). I do not have my Kross in front of me at the moment, but I suspect that this configuration is what you are searching for.

Many setups are related to the AMS Mixer in fact.

Shutoku · Post by **Shutoku** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:54 pm

Yes I noticed that but I wasn't sure.
Clearly I need to get more familiar with the AMS aspect of things.
Thanks!

castorex · Post by **castorex** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:03 am

The most simple way to be sure is the experimentation.

stingray1059 · Post by **stingray1059** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:18 am

castorex wrote:I am a beginner with the Kross, but I think it is related to AMS Mixer which is the function provided by Korg to modify or combine different parameters/controllers to transform or create new values.
If you choose Piano+String factory program the AMS Mixer shows, for OSC2 which is the oscillator for strings in this example, a transformation of the Exp. Velocity value by the inverse ModWheel action (-99). I do not have my Kross in front of me at the moment, but I suspect that this configuration is what you are searching for.

Many setups are related to the AMS Mixer in fact.

hope you write a instructions on how to do it. i also want to know how to assign the strings volume on the mod wheel.

shaneblyth · Post by **shaneblyth** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:50 am

stingray1059 wrote:
castorex wrote:I am a beginner with the Kross, but I think it is related to AMS Mixer which is the function provided by Korg to modify or combine different parameters/controllers to transform or create new values.
If you choose Piano+String factory program the AMS Mixer shows, for OSC2 which is the oscillator for strings in this example, a transformation of the Exp. Velocity value by the inverse ModWheel action (-99). I do not have my Kross in front of me at the moment, but I suspect that this configuration is what you are searching for.

Many setups are related to the AMS Mixer in fact.
hope you write a instructions on how to do it. i also want to know how to assign the strings volume on the mod wheel.

Maybe its easier to take ythe sound thats already got that function assigned to the strings and change the sounds used in that combi to what ever you like and the one you want to have the mod wheel change volume on just replace the strings sound used in the combi to whatever you want and save it in the user bank with a different name

castorex · Post by **castorex** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:01 am

I tested the method I have proposed and it does not work.
So I have the same question now : how to change the volume of an oscillator using the mod wheel ?
The only place where the mod wheel appears is in the AMS panel... applying modification in this section give no result at all: nothing happens.
In fact this machine is very complex to program and the AMS section is un-understandable !

I tested arpegiators too and the browsing through many sections (using the Kross) is terrible ! I discovered also that the Kross cannot recognize chords, so playing chords in non basic position at the left hand does not provide correct bass note for the arpegiator pattern. I don't want a full arranger keyboard, but this function is useful... or perhaps I missed something.

Umut Erhan · Post by **Umut Erhan** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:18 pm

Use a stereo limiter; set gain to -inf; Set wet/dry to %100 wet and source to mod wheel, and amount to -100. Route the programs to that IFX and thats all!

castorex · Post by **castorex** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:37 am

The solution that avoids the use of an IFX is not easy to find.
It is related to filtering... And not amp or AMS section.
Go to the filter panel, choose osc2 (related to strings tone), then look for output parameters of filter B. You can change the output controller to test it: by default the mod wheel.
Strange because the filtering part use the A+B mode... I could understand a A->B mode, but it works.

Shutoku · Post by **Shutoku** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:50 am

slimhan wrote:Use a stereo limiter; set gain to -inf; Set wet/dry to %100 wet and source to mod wheel, and amount to -100. Route the programs to that IFX and thats all!

I haven't had a chance to try it, but that makes a lot of sense to me.

It also suggests one might be able to do that with a few IFX routing one to the mod wheel, one to pitch wheel, one to damper etc....and effectively be able to mute and un-mute channels.
The trick would be remembering which device mutes which sound!

stingray1059 · Post by **stingray1059** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:42 pm

i still dont get it..

step by step instructions please.

castorex · Post by **castorex** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:31 pm

I am sorry but what do you want anymore ?

You choose program piano+strings, go to the filter section (choose filter with the menu button) and you will see output/source parameter which refers mod wheel in one of the filter edition pages (for the Oscillator 2... but I assume you known how to use the Kross OS interface... or read quickly the manual to learn about basic operations).

Shutoku · Post by **Shutoku** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:40 am

Ok so a couple things.

Castorex, your solution may well work on the piano + strings program, but that is not what I was asking about originally.

What I want to do is in COMBI mode and it involves being able to assign one sound within the combi to the wheel and change it's volume.
I got the idea from the Keyboard magazine review of the Kross, where the author of the article was able to quickly and easily do this on a layer (again two programs layered) but he doesn't describe how he did it, and it seems like it couldn't have been all that simple given we cannot seem to figure it out. I"m tempted to contact keyboard magazine and ask, but my guess is that he won't remember what he did now, or it is something unique to the layer function (which I never use...I am using my Kross as the brain in a three keyboard rig, all controllers midi'd to the Kross, so it is all about the combis for me.)

The idea of using the limiter has potential but for whatever reason I couldn't make it work. I did manage to get limited success using the stereo compressor though, however I was then trying to take it one step further, and instead of using the mod wheel, use the sw1 and sw2 buttons to mute and unmute two different programs....specifically to go from e.piano to piano + strings but on the same midi controller.
I was able to mute the piano + strings, but not the e.piano (and I have no idea why, because I ran them into two separate ifx set identically except one assigned to sw1 and the other to sw2)
Unfortunately because some other programs within the combi had things assigned to the sw1 and 2 buttons, in addition to muting the piano+strings, it also slowed the attack on my tubular bells, and added portamento to a synth patch.

I just so deeply wish the people at Korg had thought to make those favorite buttons work as mutes like they apparently do on the microstation.....and that's the part that drives me nuts! If they did it before on another "entry level" workstation, why not on this one as well?
It would really add to the functionality quite dramatically, especially for people using the Kross on it's own or as part of a two keyboard rig.

castorex · Post by **castorex** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:17 am

All what you want to do can be done using SysEx Messages and a tablet with a software surface control... I had tested an application for Android some time ago, but SysEx logic is difficult to understand on Korg.
Muting part or changing volume part seem not be possible on Kross... perhaps the volume, I am not sure !

Shutoku · Post by **Shutoku** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:15 am

Oh for sure you are correct.
In another thread with a forum member who chose to go with the Krome instead of the Kross, and we discussed that this muting can be done on the Krome, but with the touch screen, and then it was pointed out that with a tablet that runs windows 8 for example, it could be done on the Kross in the same way.
I wish the Kross editor software was available for ios though since I have and ipad, ipad mini and ipod touch.

Anyway tonight I made a big discovery that I have to post.

What I wanted to do in this instance was set up a combi with various orchestral and synth sounds on the Kross and a second controller, and on my piano controller, have a rhodes sound, that could then turn into a piano + string sound.
I didn't want to do this with 2 combi's because of the sound drop out when changing combis. Hence I wanted to be able to set up both sounds and just mute the one I don't need in a given part of a song.

Tonight the answer came to me and worked better than I could have imagined.
Here is what I did:
1. I re-wrote the rhodes program into the user bank at 011.
2. I re-wrote the piano-string program into user bank at 012.
3. I set up the combi with the Rhodes program assigned to the piano controller.
4. On the Kross own display I went into the combi and into the program page on that channel.

5. I play the song and when I need to sound change I reach up and move the dial one place up or down as need be. Voila!

What makes this even better than I had hoped though....is that it turns out that if I play a chord with the rhodes sound and hold down the damper pedal, I can then change to the piano+string program, but the rhodes sound continues to sustain until I actually strike the piano controller again. This means perfectly seamless sound changes all within one combi!