Kronos vs Access Virus

mathieumaes · Post by **mathieumaes** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:12 pm

Hi,

I've been looking for a second board to back up my Kronos. A friend recommended an Access Virus so I went to the store to give it a try.

Comparing the sound of both synths would be pointless. Both have features the other one doesn't have. Both sound great, just different. One thing is sure, they sound great together! I've already created a few combo's where I layer sounds from both synths. The result is simply mind-blowing!

The main reason why I decided to buy the Virus is the "user experience".

1. The arpeggiator
I actually managed to operate the arpeggiator and make it do things I expect an arpeggiator must do. In just a few minutes, no manual. It had proven to me once more what a sorry excuse Karma is as an arpeggiator...

2. The controls
The Virus has all the knobs you would need. All basic parameters are accessible with knobs, and you have 3 user programmable knobs to assign anything you like. If you're operating AL-1 on the Kronos, you need to assign controls to the generic knobs and sliders and makes it a bit more complicated. I know I can't expect Kronos to have knobs for every specific engine, but still this is the main reason why I chose to buy the Virus: the simplicity of controlling it.

You can set the knob mode to "snap", "jump" and "relative". Kronos kan only "jump" the controls. In fact, the Kronos can't' get many of the basics right. For instance, if you wish to "write" a program, it asks for confirmation. The hardware keys (write, exit, enter, ...) don't work in the confirmation dialog, you are forced to use the touch screen. Or the fact that the keyboard has only a "shift lock" where you nee to turn off caps yourself after typing your first and only capital.

3. The editor
The official editor is of absolute no use to me, as it doesn't add anything to the control. It does nothing more then replicate the touch screen while there's so much potential. In my oppinion it's an affront that volunteers such as Michel Keijzers and Chrutil made better software editors then Korg! Korg didn't even make the editor themselfs, they outsourced it!

Because the Virus has a relative small screen, the PC editor (plugin) actually has additional value as it provides a more advanced (and graphically attracting) UI. Too bad it's not a standalone editor, but I still need a VST host to operate it...

Kronos is my absolute favorite synth ever, I wouldn't trade it for any other synth in the world. Which is why it's so frustrating that the Virus reminded me of all these imperfections...

Thoraldus · Post by **Thoraldus** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:23 pm

mathieumaes wrote:Hi,
...[SNIP]
1. The arpeggiator
I actually managed to operate the arpeggiator and make it do things I expect an arpeggiator must do. In just a few minutes, no manual. It had proven to me once more what a sorry excuse Karma is as an arpeggiator...[SNIP]

Really?

Do you have the KARMA Kronos Software program?

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:35 pm

I think Mathieu meant literally as an arpeggiator KARMA is disappointing. I agree with this and in fact I think it's a shame KARMA is always described as "an arpeggiator on steroids". I guess it's hard to quickly describe any other way because there is nothing else common and similar. It's super powerful and I'm still surprised by some of the creative things people have found to use it (I had the original KARMA workstation and the software, but never really dug in myself). But it fails for the most simple cases of synth arpeggiating, where you want something just like PolySix. It is more effort to set up this way, it scans the notes you play in a different way and most people give up before even getting near something they expected to be easy. That's why it fails for this use case.

It's still an amazing invention and I'm glad we have it on the Kronos. I just think it's a shame Korg left off a simple "regular" arpeggiator (apart from PolySix). Even a slight modification to the drumtrack feature could have fixed this (like on the Triton series).

Thoraldus · Post by **Thoraldus** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:44 pm

SanderXpander wrote:I think Mathieu meant literally as an arpeggiator KARMA is disappointing. I agree with this and in fact I think it's a shame KARMA is always described as "an arpeggiator on steroids". I guess it's hard to quickly describe any other way because there is nothing else common and similar. It's super powerful and I'm still surprised by some of the creative things people have found to use it (I had the original KARMA workstation and the software, but never really dug in myself). But it fails for the most simple cases of synth arpeggiating, where you want something just like PolySix. It is more effort to set up this way, it scans the notes you play in a different way and most people give up before even getting near something they expected to be easy. That's why it fails for this use case.

It's still an amazing invention and I'm glad we have it on the Kronos. I just think it's a shame Korg left off a simple "regular" arpeggiator (apart from PolySix). Even a slight modification to the drumtrack feature could have fixed this (like on the Triton series).

I agree. a simple arp would be a nice 'improvement' in a future firmware update. I suppose if you really need simple arps now you could buy the Karma software package and roll-ur-own.

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:50 pm

congratulations with that great synth

, you can't go wrong with adding a virus ti to your setup, it's one of the most fantastic VA's in it's genre. The arpeggiator is indeed really good on a virus and highly configurable. The good part now is that you can use the virus arpeggiator for your kronos by simply routing the virus ti arpeggiator to the kronos.

The 64 bit DAW integration including sound over usb with any asio device is something that access is miles ahead of the competition.

There are a few synths that i will never sell, and the virus ti is one of them

JPWC · Post by **JPWC** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:11 pm

I have a Virus TI Snow, and it has a certain sound quality that makes it very special to me.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:13 pm

Thoraldus wrote:
SanderXpander wrote:I think Mathieu meant literally as an arpeggiator KARMA is disappointing. I agree with this and in fact I think it's a shame KARMA is always described as "an arpeggiator on steroids". I guess it's hard to quickly describe any other way because there is nothing else common and similar. It's super powerful and I'm still surprised by some of the creative things people have found to use it (I had the original KARMA workstation and the software, but never really dug in myself). But it fails for the most simple cases of synth arpeggiating, where you want something just like PolySix. It is more effort to set up this way, it scans the notes you play in a different way and most people give up before even getting near something they expected to be easy. That's why it fails for this use case.

It's still an amazing invention and I'm glad we have it on the Kronos. I just think it's a shame Korg left off a simple "regular" arpeggiator (apart from PolySix). Even a slight modification to the drumtrack feature could have fixed this (like on the Triton series).
I agree. a simple arp would be a nice 'improvement' in a future firmware update. I suppose if you really need simple arps now you could buy the Karma software package and roll-ur-own.

There are already "basic" patterns available, it's just that KARMA itself works differently than you would expect a "normal" arpeggiator to behave.

mathieumaes · Post by **mathieumaes** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:22 pm

Thoraldus wrote:Really?

Do you have the KARMA Kronos Software program?

No, and you've just proven my point. I rather not spend money on third-party software to allow me to use the arpeggiator of my synth.

In my honest oppinion, I think Karma is by far the worst choice Kord has made in building the synth. It's far too complicated to be an arpeggiator, and if I wanted full accompaignment I would've bought an arranger keyboard which still does a better job. The only purpose I can think of using Karma is simply showing off what my synth can do. At least for me, it has no thinkable real-life purpose (since it fails to be an arp).

mathieumaes · Post by **mathieumaes** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:30 pm

SanderXpander wrote: There are already "basic" patterns available, it's just that KARMA itself works differently than you would expect a "normal" arpeggiator to behave.

Yes, but even finding them in a list of a thousand patterns is stupid.
It took me hours to get a 1/16 repeating bassline. It took me 2 minutes in the store on the Virus.

@QuiRobinez
Haven't tried that yet. I've already done the opposite using RPPR loops. I actually started enjoying electronic music!

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:15 pm

mathieumaes wrote:
@QuiRobinez
Haven't tried that yet. I've already done the opposite using RPPR loops. I actually started enjoying electronic music!

nice

one great trick is that you can route the arp pattern you draw (or randomly generate with the knobs in the editor on the right bottom) to the Matrix, so you can create step sequenced patterns with that when you select Arp - matrix on the arp page and in the matrix you select arp to transpose as destination. For instance if you want the duran duran hungry like a wolf intro or any other pattern you can simply draw it in that way, extremely easy and powerful with the editor.

Also a really nice trick is that you can lock any section in the editor during sound browsing. So when you hear an arp you like and for instance filter setting just lock them by clicking on the header in the editor and every other patch you will select now in the browser uses those locked sections instead of their original values.

Another thing that is good to know is that you have to divide the heavy cpu patches between odd and even channels. the Odd channels uses 1 dsp and the even channels uses the second dsp. That way you can use more patches at the same time in your daw.

There are a lot of those kind of tricks in the Virus Ti editor that makes it worthwile.

Rigel · Post by **Rigel** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:28 pm

You can also use the step sequencer. I like it a lot..

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:56 pm

mathieumaes wrote:
SanderXpander wrote: There are already "basic" patterns available, it's just that KARMA itself works differently than you would expect a "normal" arpeggiator to behave.
Yes, but even finding them in a list of a thousand patterns is stupid.
It took me hours to get a 1/16 repeating bassline. It took me 2 minutes in the store on the Virus.

I'm completely on your side here. I was just replying to Thoraldus who said I could use the software to make simple arp patterns.

I actually got a repeating 16ths bassline thing set up too (can't remember if it took me hours) but it is useless because it doesn't scan the notes the way a normal arp does. If I play legato it doesn't update the note when the second note is higher than the first.

Purusha · Post by **Purusha** » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:43 pm

The main thing I like about Virus Ti vs. Kronos, is: full access to all the parameters on a patch per MIDI channel.

On Kronos, you normally have to work on a patch individually in program mode.

laandodeman · Post by **laandodeman** » Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:24 pm

SanderXpander wrote:I think Mathieu meant literally as an arpeggiator KARMA is disappointing. I agree with this and in fact I think it's a shame KARMA is always described as "an arpeggiator on steroids". I guess it's hard to quickly describe any other way because there is nothing else common and similar. It's super powerful and I'm still surprised by some of the creative things people have found to use it (I had the original KARMA workstation and the software, but never really dug in myself). But it fails for the most simple cases of synth arpeggiating, where you want something just like PolySix. It is more effort to set up this way, it scans the notes you play in a different way and most people give up before even getting near something they expected to be easy. That's why it fails for this use case.

It's still an amazing invention and I'm glad we have it on the Kronos. I just think it's a shame Korg left off a simple "regular" arpeggiator (apart from PolySix). Even a slight modification to the drumtrack feature could have fixed this (like on the Triton series).

+ 1

phillix2 · Post by **phillix2** » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:41 pm

Can any Kronos & Virus TI2 owner tell me which synth can make better pads sounds?

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