I tried out the Krome at my local Guitar Center and was very impressed. I was about to pull the trigger when an acquaintance strongly suggested that I check out the Kurzweil PC3LE keyboard line. Problem is that latter is impossible to find in any showroom here in northern New Jersey. So I'd appreciate it if someone could give me their perspective on the following...
My key purchase criteria re a keyboard might be a little different than most: I'm less interested in comparing sound quality and sound editing features. From my perspective they both have acceptable sounds, and I can fill in any gaps with PC-based soft synths and sample players. I'm more interested in the keyboard's real-time performance and MIDI control capabilities. What really impressed me with the Krome was its extensive drum track, arpgeggiator, and combo/layering features, which I believe will be great creative and inspirational tools. But what I was told is that the PC3LE might have even more impressive performance controls - e.g. 16 zones each of which could be assigned its own arpeggios and/or riffs and patterns along with a bank of multipads.
Because I can't find a location to try the Kurzweil out for myself, I'd welcome the opinion of someone who has actual experience with the PC3LE, and how it might compare to the Krome with regard to these features, or for that matter to the Korg M50 which I assume has quite similar performance controls to the Krome.
Krome vs Kurzweil PC3LE
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
well on kurz, try to ask to yourself.. how many keyboard / vst do you want to control?? 16 ?? including it's own arps and multipads??
just sayin' though... what you need is not the same as what you want..
i dislike LE series, because kurzweil didn't include VAST with it.. The poly is much less (64 if i remember correctly), and the sounds is not like krome (i mean kurz has it's own sound on its own right, including its orchestral sounds, while krome is on different right on itself).
if you're into performance gigging musician, i recommend krome.. while it doesnt include SST and setlist (as kronos), you could scroll or click through a series of combis on the user banks.. but if you perform with lots of midi, VST, and keyboards involved, well go what people recommend, kurz.. but it's like treating kurz PC3 LE as a 1600 US$ dedicated midi controller..
i've played kurz stage pianos, and i can confidently tell that krome pianos are better (i had kronos), but i cannot exactly say the same to the guitar, sax, and brass, also other woodwinds.. they lack something. i even prefer to use those sounds from my yamaha psr..
just sayin' though... what you need is not the same as what you want..
i dislike LE series, because kurzweil didn't include VAST with it.. The poly is much less (64 if i remember correctly), and the sounds is not like krome (i mean kurz has it's own sound on its own right, including its orchestral sounds, while krome is on different right on itself).
if you're into performance gigging musician, i recommend krome.. while it doesnt include SST and setlist (as kronos), you could scroll or click through a series of combis on the user banks.. but if you perform with lots of midi, VST, and keyboards involved, well go what people recommend, kurz.. but it's like treating kurz PC3 LE as a 1600 US$ dedicated midi controller..
i've played kurz stage pianos, and i can confidently tell that krome pianos are better (i had kronos), but i cannot exactly say the same to the guitar, sax, and brass, also other woodwinds.. they lack something. i even prefer to use those sounds from my yamaha psr..
Love my kronos 88 
Love my yamaha psr s910 as well
Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha PSR s910, Korg C720, Yamaha DTX 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, a pair of Yamaha HS80 in (soon not to be) an unproperly treated room..
Love my yamaha psr s910 as well
Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha PSR s910, Korg C720, Yamaha DTX 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, a pair of Yamaha HS80 in (soon not to be) an unproperly treated room..
Thanks, Jordy. Another issue with the PC3LE that I read about on several Kurzweil-related forums: seems like the arpeggiator function - while allowing for up to 16 simultaneous arpeggios (for whatever that's really worth) - is decidedly less sophisticated than that offered by Korg or Yamaha. It appears that it is pretty much limited to single note control - i.e. you can't define the arpeggio intervals by playing chords. And on top of that, people on the Kurz forums complain that the arpeggiator function is buggy.
Funny that you mentioned the PSR910 as an alternative. I was seriously considering the new PSR-S950. But it's annoying that Yamaha that doesn't offer a arranger-style pro keyboard in anything other than 61 keys.
Funny that you mentioned the PSR910 as an alternative. I was seriously considering the new PSR-S950. But it's annoying that Yamaha that doesn't offer a arranger-style pro keyboard in anything other than 61 keys.
yes i too would like a psr with 88keys.. however pianos in psr are pretty much useless in recording.. on live, it's okay, but in a condition where piano is not used for soloing.. if only they could make a clavinova shrunk to become yamaha psr 88 keys..
if you're more interested in arranger feature i suggest you check out korg's pa series.. pa588 has 88 keys, but the piano sound is decent.. clavinova has a great piano with great action and arranger feature, but very big and heavy..
1 thing to do, is to put arranger on top, and workstation on bottom (just like what i did )
if you're more interested in arranger feature i suggest you check out korg's pa series.. pa588 has 88 keys, but the piano sound is decent.. clavinova has a great piano with great action and arranger feature, but very big and heavy..
1 thing to do, is to put arranger on top, and workstation on bottom (just like what i did
)Love my kronos 88
Love my yamaha psr s910 as well
Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha PSR s910, Korg C720, Yamaha DTX 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, a pair of Yamaha HS80 in (soon not to be) an unproperly treated room..
Love my yamaha psr s910 as well
Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha PSR s910, Korg C720, Yamaha DTX 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, a pair of Yamaha HS80 in (soon not to be) an unproperly treated room..
Jordy -
One last question for you: the thing that intrigued me about the Kurzweil was its Setup mode, and how I could use it to facilitate real-time (live) performance. That's my primary interest as opposed to recording via a sequencer. As I understand it, through the Kurzweil's simultaneously assignable 16 zones, you could set up a whole bunch of sound program combinations/layers/splits that could readily be called up while playing live by assigning the program changes to a wide variety of controllers, including foot pedals. That coupled with its 'riff' capabilities seemed like a potent combination for playing live. I understand that Krome's (Korg's) analogous feature to Kurszweil's Setup is its Combination mode. If the this Combination mode coupled with the Krome's RPPR sequencing capability could come close to the Kurzweil, it would sell me on it. How easy is it to switch between sounds and settings on the Krome via its Combination mode while playing live? Sorry if I'm not articulating this question well. I'm really quite new to the music workstation / digital keyboard scene (acoustic piano, organ in past).
One last question for you: the thing that intrigued me about the Kurzweil was its Setup mode, and how I could use it to facilitate real-time (live) performance. That's my primary interest as opposed to recording via a sequencer. As I understand it, through the Kurzweil's simultaneously assignable 16 zones, you could set up a whole bunch of sound program combinations/layers/splits that could readily be called up while playing live by assigning the program changes to a wide variety of controllers, including foot pedals. That coupled with its 'riff' capabilities seemed like a potent combination for playing live. I understand that Krome's (Korg's) analogous feature to Kurszweil's Setup is its Combination mode. If the this Combination mode coupled with the Krome's RPPR sequencing capability could come close to the Kurzweil, it would sell me on it. How easy is it to switch between sounds and settings on the Krome via its Combination mode while playing live? Sorry if I'm not articulating this question well. I'm really quite new to the music workstation / digital keyboard scene (acoustic piano, organ in past).
sorry, but i never use kurz's workstation... can't answer thissjmarano wrote:Jordy -
One last question for you: the thing that intrigued me about the Kurzweil was its Setup mode, and how I could use it to facilitate real-time (live) performance. That's my primary interest as opposed to recording via a sequencer. As I understand it, through the Kurzweil's simultaneously assignable 16 zones, you could set up a whole bunch of sound program combinations/layers/splits that could readily be called up while playing live by assigning the program changes to a wide variety of controllers, including foot pedals. That coupled with its 'riff' capabilities seemed like a potent combination for playing live. I understand that Krome's (Korg's) analogous feature to Kurszweil's Setup is its Combination mode. If the this Combination mode coupled with the Krome's RPPR sequencing capability could come close to the Kurzweil, it would sell me on it. How easy is it to switch between sounds and settings on the Krome via its Combination mode while playing live? Sorry if I'm not articulating this question well. I'm really quite new to the music workstation / digital keyboard scene (acoustic piano, organ in past).
but AFAIK, you'll never get that close with krome.. Kurz has an arpeggiator with each timbre, while (again AFAIK), krome did not.. korg keyboard that might pull that off is an m50 (with karma m50 software) and / or korg m3..
Love my kronos 88
Love my yamaha psr s910 as well
Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha PSR s910, Korg C720, Yamaha DTX 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, a pair of Yamaha HS80 in (soon not to be) an unproperly treated room..
Love my yamaha psr s910 as well
Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha PSR s910, Korg C720, Yamaha DTX 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, a pair of Yamaha HS80 in (soon not to be) an unproperly treated room..
Actually you can use the M50's arps on every track if you record it into the sequencer mode. I use more than two arps frequently in this manor. I do not find a need for that many arps running at once in most cases but have run several at different points throughout a song. You can run a drum track with a bass and keyboard arp in one pass then go over the top with motion and string arps, ect...
Thanks, csteen.
Yes, that's actually what I was driving at. I subsequently uploaded a message here ('RPPR Function in Krome') that referenced a Web article that explained how to use the sequencer mode to set up RPPR (mini-sequences assigned to keys) purely to send sysex messages to the M3. According to the article, you can in effect use the keyboard to change combinations, splits, layers, and I presume arpeggios on the fly. My assumption/hope is that the Krome - which provides the RPPR capability - would allow for the same thing. A person (Andy) replied to that forum message and pointed me to a YouTube video that is very encouraging. Seems to me that the RPPR function in effect gives the Korg line of keyboards at least as much real-time MIDI control functionality as the Kurzweil. I'm hoping to confirm this at a local store before purchasing.
Yes, that's actually what I was driving at. I subsequently uploaded a message here ('RPPR Function in Krome') that referenced a Web article that explained how to use the sequencer mode to set up RPPR (mini-sequences assigned to keys) purely to send sysex messages to the M3. According to the article, you can in effect use the keyboard to change combinations, splits, layers, and I presume arpeggios on the fly. My assumption/hope is that the Krome - which provides the RPPR capability - would allow for the same thing. A person (Andy) replied to that forum message and pointed me to a YouTube video that is very encouraging. Seems to me that the RPPR function in effect gives the Korg line of keyboards at least as much real-time MIDI control functionality as the Kurzweil. I'm hoping to confirm this at a local store before purchasing.
You can indeed do a lot of things with RPPR, however do be aware it is somewhat time consuming to set all of the triggers up, however the end result can be very interesting and worthwhile.
Here's a link for a video by Rich showing how the function is used on all of Korgs workstations.
Korg M3- RPPR Patterns- In The Studio With Korg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH6TqFbskDc
Here's a link for a video by Rich showing how the function is used on all of Korgs workstations.
Korg M3- RPPR Patterns- In The Studio With Korg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH6TqFbskDc
I don't have the Kurzweil PC3Le. Instead I have the PC3k series. Regarding your main concern: performance control, Kurzweil is the way to go.
Regarding MIDI control, Kurzweil is totally superior with Setup Mode. Combi mode is not even close. As you know, you can have 16 zones, each one with different assignments for the physical controllers you have on Kurzweil. The flexibility to set ranges, inversions, transpositions, expansions, compressions and so on is almost unlimited since you have FUN (math functions) to transform the controller output to whatever you need. With Korg, the nearest bet are the AMS Mixers but you have few of those and don't have the flexibility found on Kurzweil.
Personally, I don't like too much the implementation of the arpeggiator on Kurzweil, but I must admit you indeed can have one arpeggiator and one riff for every single zone. Whereas on Krome you just get 4. It's not true that you can't have note groups or that it's buggy, but I must tell you the configuration and concepts needed to create a complex arpeggio are hard to grasp. You'll have to read many times, practice a lot to better understand how does that work.
RPPR on Krome is nice, but the issue here is that RPPR won't automatically transpose, whereas the riffs can do that. This is a killer feature to actually use sequences for each zone and you can (if you want to) transpose those.
Regarding synth capabilities, Kurzweil PC3Le has Dynamic VAST which is way superior compared with EDS-x on Krome. The pianos must be indeed better on Krome, but the rest of the sounds... I don't think so. If you plan to program the synth and you don't want limits regarding synth programming, Kurzweil is the way to go. Personally, I would prefer the keymaps (multisamples) to be upgraded, but those are indeed great. Also, the polyphony on Kurzweil PC3Le is 64 which is lower compared with Krome. Anyway, Kurzweil has a great voice stealing algorithm to compensate this.
The UI on Kurzweil is terribly dated, but logical. With Krome, the UI is really nice. While the sequencer on both workstations is similar, on Krome is much more friendly and easy to use.
Regarding MIDI control, Kurzweil is totally superior with Setup Mode. Combi mode is not even close. As you know, you can have 16 zones, each one with different assignments for the physical controllers you have on Kurzweil. The flexibility to set ranges, inversions, transpositions, expansions, compressions and so on is almost unlimited since you have FUN (math functions) to transform the controller output to whatever you need. With Korg, the nearest bet are the AMS Mixers but you have few of those and don't have the flexibility found on Kurzweil.
Personally, I don't like too much the implementation of the arpeggiator on Kurzweil, but I must admit you indeed can have one arpeggiator and one riff for every single zone. Whereas on Krome you just get 4. It's not true that you can't have note groups or that it's buggy, but I must tell you the configuration and concepts needed to create a complex arpeggio are hard to grasp. You'll have to read many times, practice a lot to better understand how does that work.
RPPR on Krome is nice, but the issue here is that RPPR won't automatically transpose, whereas the riffs can do that. This is a killer feature to actually use sequences for each zone and you can (if you want to) transpose those.
Regarding synth capabilities, Kurzweil PC3Le has Dynamic VAST which is way superior compared with EDS-x on Krome. The pianos must be indeed better on Krome, but the rest of the sounds... I don't think so. If you plan to program the synth and you don't want limits regarding synth programming, Kurzweil is the way to go. Personally, I would prefer the keymaps (multisamples) to be upgraded, but those are indeed great. Also, the polyphony on Kurzweil PC3Le is 64 which is lower compared with Krome. Anyway, Kurzweil has a great voice stealing algorithm to compensate this.
The UI on Kurzweil is terribly dated, but logical. With Krome, the UI is really nice. While the sequencer on both workstations is similar, on Krome is much more friendly and easy to use.
Current gear: 
Access Virus TI2 Whiteout Keyboard (111/150), Access Virus TI2 Polar DarkStar Special Edition, Gibson Custom Lite 2013, Roland MV-8800 
Access Virus TI2 Whiteout Keyboard (111/150), Access Virus TI2 Polar DarkStar Special Edition, Gibson Custom Lite 2013, Roland MV-8800 I think you mean that it doesn't include the VAST editing... but there was an OS update, and now it does (though not the full fx editing, though I think you can get that as well with the SoundTower editor).1jordyzzz wrote:i dislike LE series, because kurzweil didn't include VAST with it.
One advantage of the Kurz over the Krome that I haven't seen mentioned here is that it has aftertouch.
Kurzweil PC3 LE series have hardware problems (I have sent back 2 already) - it will randomly just stop - and then the LEDs flash - and the whole instrument is un useable.
Kurzweil know there is a problem with the PC3 LE range (and other ranges apparently). So although you may have got the LE3 already - this is just so you know (and anybody else listening)
Kurzweil support have been great about it though and Jean at Kurzweil especially so - fantastic service
Kurzweil know there is a problem with the PC3 LE range (and other ranges apparently). So although you may have got the LE3 already - this is just so you know (and anybody else listening)
Kurzweil support have been great about it though and Jean at Kurzweil especially so - fantastic service
new x-50 owner