A better CX-3 Leslie

jeremykeys · Post by **jeremykeys** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:56 pm

Davd C. Polich. You rock dude! I think your programming mod sounds amazing! I have an organ sound that I cobbled together that isd my main Hammond sound and now with your idea it just kills! I call the sound, "Jeremy's Big Organ". It has to do with my heart, ok? Nothing else. Nope! Not anything else at all!

I tend to use the controls a fair bit so I usually have my "board laid out before hand so that I know what to expect when I grab a bunch of drawbars. Tons o' amp gain for that dirty grit and grime that I want for Rawk songs!

Thanks you very very much!
Now if I only knew how to play!

Davd C. Polich · Post by **Davd C. Polich** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:15 am

jeremykeys wrote:Davd C. Polich. You rock dude! I think your programming mod sounds amazing! I have an organ sound that I cobbled together that isd my main Hammond sound and now with your idea it just kills! I call the sound, "Jeremy's Big Organ". It has to do with my heart, ok? Nothing else. Nope! Not anything else at all! I tend to use the controls a fair bit so I usually have my "board laid out before hand so that I know what to expect when I grab a bunch of drawbars. Tons o' amp gain for that dirty grit and grime that I want for Rawk songs!

Thanks you very very much!
Now if I only knew how to play!

Happy to hear you like what you're hearing!

jeremykeys · Post by **jeremykeys** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:01 am

Oh yes I do!

laandodeman · Post by **laandodeman** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:50 am

Davd C. Polich wrote:
laandodeman wrote:Hi Dave, thanks for this, i DO hear the difference.

However, even though I put both on slow, my leslie does not really slow down. Can this be related to the rotary settings in de CX3?

I do keep the feeling I have two leslies whirling at their own tempo.
I can't troubleshoot your programming remotely, so I'm not sure what
you have going on. There is no way to exactly match the two rotary speeds because they are two different effects, obviously, with no exact
correlation of parameters. So yes, of course they "sound like they're whirling at two different tempos" because they are. Try experimenting with the IFX1 Rotary Speaker OD Horn Intensity and Rotor Intensity settings, AND also adjusting the CX-3's Rotary Speaker horn and rotor slow and fast settings. You have SIX speed-related parameter settings to adjust on the CX3's rotary speaker, plus the two speed-related settings on the Rotary Speaker OD effect, for a total of eight. And they will all affect each other. I've adjusted mine to where it sounds good to me..that might not be what sounds good to you.

I don't know what you mean by "my Leslie does not slow down". That sounds like you're saying that when you push the mod lever forward to set it the speed to fast, and then push it forward again to toggle it back to slow, one of the rotary effects doesn't slow back down. Is that it?

At any rate, you should have the Rotary Speaker OD effect(on Insert FX 1 slot) set to "toggle", not "momentary". Re-read my original post, it states exactly what I recommend the parameter settings should be for the Rotary Speaker OD effect on IFX1. Also make SURE the CX3 program is routed to "IFX1", not "L/R".

Found it Dave: i forgot that my CX3 Rotary speed was triggered differently (with aftertouch). I am really happy with the result. Thanks again!

Phinnin · Post by **Phinnin** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:21 pm

HUGE tip! Thanks. Very nice improvement.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:59 pm

Hi David, I finally got the chance/remembered to try this out and I have to say I was positively surprised, it sounds great! I was skeptical of the idea of running two rotaties in series and was assuming the effect to be much more pronounced, but it's quite subtle yet a marked improvement. Thanks for this tip and indeed an awesome first post!

The only "annoying" thing I've found so far is that you can't use an AMS mixer for the fast/slow toggle source. I use on to toggle the "regular" CX-3 leslie with both my damper pedal an JS+Y. So I'll need to figure that one out somehow, or just get used to it I guess.

drama1 · Post by **drama1** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:56 am

I tried this and unless I'm doing something wrong, I can pretty much get the same effect by using a touch of chorus fx pre-leslie simulation thereby negating the different rotating speeds. Unless I'm missing something. Am I?

Davd C. Polich · Post by **Davd C. Polich** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:54 pm

drama1 wrote:I tried this and unless I'm doing something wrong, I can pretty much get the same effect by using a touch of chorus fx pre-leslie simulation thereby negating the different rotating speeds. Unless I'm missing something. Am I?

Well, yes, you are missing something. Not saying that you can't get a pleasing sound using a chorus, but chorus and rotary speaker are two different effects entirely.
Chorus uses an LFO (or LFO's) to modulate pitch. A rotary speaker effect imitates the sound of two spinning speakers which rotate independently. And rotary effects feature speaker simulators. A chorus has no speaker simulation.

You actually can't place a chorus effect "pre-Leslie simulation". The CX-3's signal flow works like this - CX-3 organ>amp/preamp>organ chorus/vibrato>rotary speaker. That is all "built-in" to the CX3 engine. A chorus effect placed on INS FX 1 slot will be after the CX-3's rotary speaker.

drama1 · Post by **drama1** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:25 pm

Whoops, you're right, Dave. I meant post-leslie. I'm going to have to experiment a bit more with double leslie sims. Thanks again.

jerrythek · Post by **jerrythek** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:48 am

Hey DCP - nice tip! I have to admit that I had always wanted to get a dual Leslie sound but let my brain get in the way of even trying this approach.

I've always like the thicker swirl that an engine like VB3 got versus the CX3, and have mentioned that to Korg before. This brings it in that direction.

But...

I'm bothered by the smearing and slop during acceleration and deceleration that occurs, and I don't want to take the CX3 and try to make its Leslie match the OD effect version. I'm currently trying the same approach using the Pro CX version as an IFX, and vary the slow and fast rates for the Horn/rotor to achieve the same thicker swirl. Did you try that and choose to use the OD version for some reason? I'm curious...

All the best,

Jerry

Davd C. Polich · Post by **Davd C. Polich** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:31 pm

jerrythek wrote:Hey DCP - nice tip! I have to admit that I had always wanted to get a dual Leslie sound but let my brain get in the way of even trying this approach.

I've always like the thicker swirl that an engine like VB3 got versus the CX3, and have mentioned that to Korg before. This brings it in that direction.

But...

I'm bothered by the smearing and slop during acceleration and deceleration that occurs, and I don't want to take the CX3 and try to make its Leslie match the OD effect version. I'm currently trying the same approach using the Pro CX version as an IFX, and vary the slow and fast rates for the Horn/rotor to achieve the same thicker swirl. Did you try that and choose to use the OD version for some reason? I'm curious...

All the best,

Jerry

Thanks for the shout-out, Jerry! Yes, I "briefly" tried the Pro CX version, I didn't think it resulted in the same thickness and "extra swirl", but perhaps a revisit is in order. If you hit on an ideal range of
parameters using the Pro CX effect, please post…and if I get a good result using it, I'll do the same.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:37 pm

A short mp3 of the best efforts so far would really be helpful.

I still have doubts that two Leslies with different acceleration behavior could really sound closer to a real Leslie sound. Maybe fuller in a way, but does that really work well in loud band context, or rather sound a bit muddy?

Sorry to ask before I even tried fiddling around with the settings, but it would save time to get a rough impression, how promising the results may be, before fine tuning parameters again and again.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:55 pm

I had the same thought, Jim, but was surprised that the resulting effect is really quite subtle. Yet still pleasing, to my ears.
Not that this will be your new and only CX3 sound, but it's worth adding to your arsenal in my opinion.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:04 pm

Thanks for adding your impression, SanderXpander!
I'll check it out myself as soon as I have some time left for it.

pizzafilms · Post by **pizzafilms** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:37 pm

This is awesome! Thank you so much. I've been wanting something closer to the VB3 leslie sound and this comes much closer.

Now, it would be great to get the tube distortion a little fatter too.

Hmmm....