Korg is making the upgrade from K to K2 impossible

kronoSphere · Post by **kronoSphere** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:48 pm

Most annoying : Karo, as an exemple, doesn't even answer to any mail concerning this question. I was not waiting for any agree answer or negative answer but just an answer... Maybe I am amazed !

Dniss · Post by **Dniss** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:48 pm

It must certainly hurt the library business.

I know for a fact I will not get as many libraries as I normally would, knowing I will end up writing them off at the end of the day.

Funky40 · Post by **Funky40** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:19 pm

Dniss wrote:It must certainly hurt the library business.

I know for a fact I will not get as many libraries as I normally would, knowing I will end up writing them off at the end of the day.

+1

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:12 pm

I have been pted to buy a library then the K2 came out and again I remembered once the item is in the board it stays there forever. So I don't buy.

ahutnick · Post by **ahutnick** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:55 pm

It is too bad that Karo does not respond to e-mail inquiries and being that I have owned several Krono's I've certainly have e-mailed him with no reply.

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:31 pm

Here's my solution (no dongle, no iLok, no USB drive):

De-authorization codes that render the library back to DEMO mode.

If you have to buy an authorization code that uses your unique Kronos ID to generate an unlock "key", then surely the process should be reversible, yes?

You'd have to go online again to get another authorization key, but you would have to enter a Kronos ID (maybe your same machine, maybe another machine you have) to (re-)activate a library that's in DEMO mode.

If you sold your Kronos, but wanted to keep your libraries, you'd generate a "de-authorization code" from the Kronos itself, which would deactivate the library, and then submit that to Korg's online database where you registered your Kronos. The next time you want to authorize a sound library, you'd need a Korg-encrypted copy of your de-authorization code (which uses your personal information to tie the code to you), and use that to activate the library on any one Kronos you wanted (again, using that Kronos' public ID).

It gets more complicated if your Kronos dies or is stolen. My mind is getting twisted now trying to come up with ways to deal with other possibilities. Seems like your registration information, a Kronos public ID, and the ability of the Kronos to talk to Korg's database online are all required... gah, nevermind.

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:42 am

Why don't Korg simply allow the same EXs to be registered on more than one Kronos with a fair-use limit (say, four devices)?

People who have spent their hard earned money on an expensive EXs are unlikely to distribute it illegally as it would reduce their ability to install in on future devices. I also wonder if the sales lost due to improper distribution of purchased libraries would be less than the increase in sales due to people feeling more comfortable in their purchase.

Here's an interesting thing: my home insurance company does not allow me to insure software purchases, arguing instead that backups should be made. Whilst I can always redownload an EXs, if my Kronos is stolen any backup essentially becomes defunct. If I have $1000 worth of EXs libraries, how can I insure against the loss of these if I lose access to the original device?

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:33 am

Given the opportunity or ability, software is much, much more likely to be pirated than legally obtained, I'd guess.

Fair use limited to 4 devices? Think about that... what's more likely -- someone with 4 Kronos' or...

...someone who will sell/split the price of a library with up to 4 people -- eBay, craigslist, Guitar Center employees, torrents, DropBox... Four different devices means four different Kronos public ID's. I'd be surprised if there were more than a dozen people who have 4 Kronos keyboards.

Don't get me wrong, I wish libraries were movable. I bought Funk and Soul Brass before I knew about the limitation. But if the libraries were movable, then they'd be re-sellable, wouldn't they? Again and again. And each re-sell would rob the library author.

I think if we could come up with a technical solution that protects the library authors as well as make Kronos owners happy, then we'd have a case. But that solution would have to take in all possibilities --

-- my Kronos was stolen! I need another authorization key for my new Kronos! (was it really stolen, or do you have a friend with a demo library he wants to activate for free?)
-- it's for my 2nd/3rd Kronos (and not some other person's Kronos? right....)
-- my Kronos died, I have a "new" Kronos now! (maybe, maybe not)
-- I lost my original authorization and had to re-format! (or, perhaps you're trying to pretend that's the case so you can get a key to sell on the black market)
-- I upgraded my Kronos with new hardware, the library isn't working anymore! (uh huh, sure it isn't)
-- and so on

All these scenarios are not just "possible", they're probably "more likely" to be the case than not. Therefore a secure, technical solution is needed that takes in all the scenarios while rewarding the library authors but still satisfies the Kronos purchaser while technically restraining him and thereby keeping him honest.

Now that's a technical issue to overcome. I realize I'll probably be un-popular for playing the Devil's Advocate here, but no one seems to be considering the other side of the equation... Any one have any ideas that technically prevents the dishonest from faking a scenario mentioned above? I'd love to hear it.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:48 am

A USB key.
Of course you could lose that too but the same goes for a physical expansion board if you move it around a lot. At some point it's just your loss.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:07 am

psionic311 wrote:Here's my solution (no dongle, no iLok, no USB drive):

De-authorization codes that render the library back to DEMO mode.

If you have to buy an authorization code that uses your unique Kronos ID to generate an unlock "key", then surely the process should be reversible, yes?

You'd have to go online again to get another authorization key, but you would have to enter a Kronos ID (maybe your same machine, maybe another machine you have) to (re-)activate a library that's in DEMO mode.

If you sold your Kronos, but wanted to keep your libraries, you'd generate a "de-authorization code" from the Kronos itself, which would deactivate the library, and then submit that to Korg's online database where you registered your Kronos. The next time you want to authorize a sound library, you'd need a Korg-encrypted copy of your de-authorization code (which uses your personal information to tie the code to you), and use that to activate the library on any one Kronos you wanted (again, using that Kronos' public ID).

It gets more complicated if your Kronos dies or is stolen. My mind is getting twisted now trying to come up with ways to deal with other possibilities. Seems like your registration information, a Kronos public ID, and the ability of the Kronos to talk to Korg's database online are all required... gah, nevermind.

This is a good way to go!

ahutnick · Post by **ahutnick** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:27 am

One thing for sure without a Kronos none of these libraries would be of any value which limits the profit potential of pirating them . A lot more people own computers than Kronos keyboards so pirating DAW software as well as as virtual instruments would seem to be of more value to the software pirates than Kronos libraries. That being said I do not condone software piracy and I believe in the right of developers to protect their product but I would like to see someway of transferring a library from one Kronos to another

MoonMusic · Post by **MoonMusic** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:11 pm

Maybe Korg hasn't done anything about it because they don't want to deal with the headache?....They obviously didn't think about the end user when setting this system up and they may not want to spend the resources supporting it....If they set it up with something like an ilok, then they could hand those duties over to someone like pace....Not saying that's the route they should go (just an example) but I bet a lot of it is they don't want the responsibility.....Apple takes care of their apps on that end....Not sure who takes care of the Legacy edition stuff....SOMETHING needs to be set up though because I won't buy a single library until there is a fairly pain free way of AUTOMATICALLY getting libraries back....Not waiting for someone to get back to me....moon

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:50 pm

I will dare to be the contrarian here. I have demo'd many of the sample libs and have not been thoroughly impressed enough to drop $149 or $199 or $249.

I don't gig or record as a pro so I don't have specific sound needs from the sample libs.

But if the price is $49 or lets say under $100, that kind of purchase is ok with me as long as I see some entertainment value. Given that, if I buy the Kronos 2 and have 2 sample libs that were inexpensive on my 1st gen Kronos, I am not going to be very upset that I cannot move them over.

It would be nice , of course, but I know the deal if I was buying the Kronos 2. That if I had to have a duplicate sample libs, I would have to fork some $$ over.

So I see it as total cost of ownership. Since I don't expect Korg to change their policy just for me.

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:28 am

A USB key could work... but could they implement that retroactively for all users that have already purchased libraries?

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:34 am

GregC wrote:I will dare to be the contrarian here. I have demo'd many of the sample libs and have not been thoroughly impressed enough to drop $149 or $199 or $249.

I don't gig or record as a pro so I don't have specific sound needs from the sample libs.

But if the price is $49 or lets say under $100, that kind of purchase is ok with me as long as I see some entertainment value. Given that, if I buy the Kronos 2 and have 2 sample libs that were inexpensive on my 1st gen Kronos, I am not going to be very upset that I cannot move them over.

It would be nice , of course, but I know the deal if I was buying the Kronos 2. That if I had to have a duplicate sample libs, I would have to fork some $$ over.

So I see it as total cost of ownership. Since I don't expect Korg to change their policy just for me.

Normally I don't purchase libraries either, because I don't make enough money via the Kronos to justify an expensive whim for a sound or two. But great brass sounds, esp trombones and French horns, has been a holy grail of mine, therefore the purchase of Funk Soul and Brass.

But yeah, it can be looked at as total cost of ownership. I got my Kronos61 for $2100, which to me was a good deal, so that's how I justified my splurge on the brass. I can see how others would be hesitant to make the jump with the library being tied to one Kronos only.