Karma Triggering Audio Loops - Demo

[apex]

Im not following the paragraph about the pattern transpose.... But yes I have done everything as outlines in the directions

[apex]

Pattern Transpose has been assigned to slider 1 in the GE RPT parameters yes? Are you using slider 1 to save a different value in each Karma scene? The slider is really sensitive in the current setting (it can eventually be set to have a reduced note range but no need to worry about that for now) I used the value inc. and dec. buttons instead. You can re-trigger the notes using the keyboard for now each time you press the increase and decrease buttons. If the notes don't progress in semitones approximately every 2 values (between 0-127) then something isn't right.

ok... some of these parameters are starting to make a little more sense. one observation is that the -36 is WAY to large of a value for this setup. i mean that many steps would equal about "18 scene" changes... but we only have 8 scenes to use (unless we are using the software then we have more).... but I do have it working now... but I need to get the -36 - 36 range down..... technically it doesn't even matter sense the scene buttons are used for the section changes... but at the same time.....

so 64 is the "center" value for the transpose pattern parameter. anything about 64 an increase in the "pitch/section" seems like that would be easier to see/default at zero vs 64. mainly because "64" would be the first section of the song.... never a need to go below that. but if you hit that slider down for ANY reason... it's mad trouble. but if you set it to zero and have the slider all the way down... I think you have less "issues" to worry about during performance. (just a thought though).... but at least I've got it working on the Kronos. Now I'm going to try this on the m3 and see if I can at least get the same results. I'm still testing using a simple piano tone.

more status updates later.

[Peas&Carrots]

That's really good news.

I left the transpose pattern with a larger range for now so that the user can select between a wider variety of multisample loops but I take your point about accidentally hitting the slider! - there may be a way of disabling a slider for a specific Karma module within a Combi? or perhaps allocate another keyboard function to do this?

Another thing I've recently found is that the pitch bend will change the playback speed of the sample loop (sending it out of sync) so the pitch bend and possibly other CC's will need disabling too for that particular Karma module - this IS possible from the Karma midi Filter CC offset tab.

Here's a link to my PCG file set on Program User bank GG000:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pbpo4hmq5qsb3 ... m.PCG?dl=0 I've unchecked all the Receive midi filters (e.g. pitch bend etc) except for "other CC" as this seems to be needed for the insert effects that I used. The PCG just uses a ROM paino sample (not the Will and Britney loops on the demo).

If the piano note progression is not in semitones when cycling through the Karma Scenes from left to right then there is something wrong with your GE.

For anyone else reading this - it all sounds like a load of faff at the moment but once the Performance settings have been put together they can easily be copied to any set of multisample loops in the future.

let me know how you get on!

[apex]

That's really good news.

I left the transpose pattern with a larger range for now so that the user can select between a wider variety of multisample loops but I take your point about accidentally hitting the slider! - there may be a way of disabling a slider for a specific Karma module within a Combi? or perhaps allocate another keyboard function to do this?

Another thing I've recently found is that the pitch bend will change the playback speed of the sample loop (sending it out of sync) so the pitch bend and possibly other CC's will need disabling too for that particular Karma module - this IS possible from the Karma midi Filter CC offset tab.

Here's a link to my PCG file set on Program User bank GG000:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pbpo4hmq5qsb3 ... m.PCG?dl=0 I've unchecked all the Receive midi filters (e.g. pitch bend etc) except for "other CC" as this seems to be needed for the insert effects that I used. The PCG just uses a ROM paino sample (not the Will and Britney loops on the demo).

If the piano note progression is not in semitones when cycling through the Karma Scenes from left to right then there is something wrong with your GE.

For anyone else reading this - it all sounds like a load of faff at the moment but once the Performance settings have been put together they can easily be copied to any set of multisample loops in the future.

let me know how you get on!

Yeah, things are shaping out a bit better now. I've learned that even though you may have the drum link button selected in the karma software (the yellow light) that it may not be on once you load the GE into the Kronos/m3.... but for some reason, the ONLY error free way for me to have this thing work EVERY TIME...was to have that drum link option turned on.... it would work every time. even if I turned it off and turned it back on. For some reason last night when I was testing and experimenting..once this thing "stopped" working... it would NEVER come back and do it right. (for example if I hit another key or something instead of the scene buttons, it would get off and stop the incremental pitch change (to change the loop), even if I turned Karma off and back on again, it would still not work anymore (unless I turned off the entire keyboard and then back on again)...

but now as long as the DT link is on it plays with no hiccup. if I mess up I just turn off karma and then back on again and it works perfectly again. I've had to do some tweeking to get things just right though. (instructions leave gaping (long a) holes in some instances).... this works, but what if I don't want the drum track to turn on as soon as I start the first scene? I mean if the link button is on and you push drum track.... then the drums start instantly (as well as the loops)

I just watched your video again and you don't have the drum link light on (which means you have the drum link option disabled.... even though you specifically said in the instructions to make sure that you select the link drum track option turned on (yellow light). you also engage the drum track during your performance so for some reason, yours is still set up a bit different than mine.


But for the record, I do have this working on the Kronos AND the m3

[apex]

I do have this question.... what made you even try this as it relates to Karma? I know what you were trying to achieve, but what was the thought process that led you to try Karma?

I've said before that I've considered this before... but never really as karma triggering samples. lol I wanted Karma to trigger the Rppr phrases.

So I'm a little curious how this all came about (please be as detailed as possible).

the main trick was to create a one note Karma GE and to specify that pattern transpose as one of the GE real time parameters..... it seems like ALL the rest of it could have been done right withing the keyboard.

[Peas&Carrots]

I'm still here but not for much longer this evening

I'm thinking that you might be confusing the yellow link button in the GE editor Drum window with Drum Track Trigger mode? In my demo the drum track is off / DT trigger mode is set to Start immediately / Drum Track is also set to sync. I think these settings are in the PCG file that I sent a link to earlier.

(instructions leave gaping (long a) holes in some instances)....

LOL - yea you are correct but I did say they were "Draft" notes - thanks for your patience - I'm sure that you will eventually decide that it was worth while. Any suggested amendments to the instructions are appreciated.

With regards to your last question (i.e. what made me even try) I was just in the process of learning Karma and started by turning all settings to "off". The rest just happened by accident (EDIT: a sort of EUREKA moment) and I spent a week trying to replicate what happened! For a while now I've thought Kronos should have some sort of user triggered backing track facility (in addition to the wonderful Karma) or alternative to RPPR so it just fell into place!

I was so excited by what I found I then posted the video despite my lack of knowledge. Hopefully it might turn into something really useful.

[apex]

no I'm talking about this yellow link button shown in this screen shot (from your PDF file)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x5fyjnep3lb4o ... 1.png?dl=0

you said to make sure that yellow light is lit right

I did notice that the drum track on your system was off, but I was saying that I had to have mine on in order for all this to work correctly every time.

I don't really understand why though....

[apex]

here is tip from testing.... use the latch key if things get off... remember latch is basically like you are holding the key down or continuing to hit it over and over.... so if things get off or don't trigger correctly just hit the latch key (turn it off then back on) this erases the last note triggered (basically), then on the next down beat you can get back on time.

[Peas&Carrots]

OK thanks for the tip

Going back (briefly) to the yellow link button in the Karma GE Editor Drum Window - it has nothing to do with Kronos Drum Track. It is a link between Karma Module Run 1,2 and 3. Normally patterns are split into 3 when importing a midi file via the Import to GE process. Clicking link will make the patterns play in series (they usually play simultaneously).

There is another Link to DT in the Performance Editor / GE Setup which links the playing of Drum Track to the playing of the Karma module (or vice versa). From memory I left this unchecked.

I'll leave it with you unless you have any more questions? Hope all goes well with the M3 too!

Let us all know how you get on

[ephemere]

Hi. Newbie here. I'm awaiting a Kronos to be shipped to me. I'm wondering if you guys could summarize the advantages of using KARMA for this instead of RPPR. In anticipation of my Kronos arriving, I've been watching some tutorial videos. I saw a tutorial of RPPR and it made me think you could use it to do something similar to your demo here. Sure enough, you guys both mentioned RPPR in your posts, but it wasn't clear to me why you didn't use RPPR.

What are the disadvantages of using RPPR for this kind of thing?

[Peas&Carrots]

Hi ephemere - welcome!

This post may help with your question: http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... 02b9a792f9

RPPR can achieve similar results so it is really down to you what you want to achieve

[ephemere]

Thank you, p&c. That does help. I figured that kind of thing would be configurable so that you could do it all with pads. I guess I'll have to wait until the Kronos arrives at my door and then start playing with it.

[Peas&Carrots]

Yes you can indeed set up the pads to trigger RPPR

There have been suggestions on this forum to offset the RPPR keys using transpose functions within Global mode and within Karma but the keyboard keys will always remain allocated to the RPPR shut down keys. This effectively means you will not have the full keyboard range to play with. RPPR may well suit your needs - I just found an alternative - perhaps...

Have fun playing with your new toy!

[apex]

Just wondering if anyone else had jumped on this band wagon yet and what kinda success or failures you've had.

[apex]

Anybody start messing with this yet?