Alternative view of things. Not everyone's cup of tea :)

runningman67 · Post by **runningman67** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Thought I would share this. It's stripped back reality.

'Pick up a pebble on the beach, don't try and get a sermon out of it. Just enjoy it, enjoy the pebble, if you do that you become healthy. A loving human being'

At 1 minute 25 music is mentioned.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/21RwqnB8GrE" frameborder="0"></iframe>

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:14 am

When I began training "sitting" (zazen) years ago, I was absorbing books or such lectures by Alan Watts and others.

We can't discuss religious and worldview matters in this forum at length, so in short: I think Alan Watts got the whole eastern basic concept of purposelessness wrong. In contemplation it is a practical forgoing of interpretation (in the east AND west), to leave room for the self-evidence of the essential. It is NOT a typically western philosophical perspective of a positivistic naturalistic kind, which Alan takes it for. Alan's aim is to put it in contrast to jewish-christian perspectives of a developing history in relation (to God and others), and towards (any) goals. But this way he neither grasps one (the original meaning of purposelessness) nor the other (which just serves as unnamed dark foil for his philosophic view).

I also fail to see any connection between Alan's view and being "healthy", loving and understanding: that's nothing but a claim. If all had no purpose in his misunderstood philosophical way of puprposelessness, why should being healthy, loving and understanding become a goal at all???

Not to get me wrong: I like runningman's music, and I'm experienced concerning contemplation. I just happen to disagree with Alan Watts and the meanwhile widespread worldview expressed above.

And I'm glad that music is able to connect different views and feelings - in part due to the facts that it is a language beyond words.

So: back to music?

jones · Post by **jones** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:52 am

jimknopf wrote:When I began training "sitting" (zazen) years ago, I was absorbing books or such lectures by Alan Watts and others.

We can't discuss religious and worldview matters in this forum at length, so in short: I think Alan Watts got the whole eastern basic concept of purposelessness wrong. In contemplation it is a practical forgoing of interpretation (in the east AND west), to leave room for the self-evidence of the essential. It is NOT a typically western philosophical perspective of a positivistic naturalistic kind, which Alan takes it for. Alan's aim is to put it in contrast to jewish-christian perspectives of a developing history in relation (to God and others), and towards (any) goals. But this way he neither grasps one (the original meaning of purposelessness) nor the other (which just serves as unnamed dark foil for his philosophic view).

I also fail to see any connection between Alan's view and being "healthy", loving and understanding: that's nothing but a claim. If all had no purpose in his misunderstood philosophical way of puprposelessness, why should being healthy, loving and understanding become a goal at all???

Not to get me wrong: I like runningman's music, and I'm experienced concerning contemplation. I just happen to disagree with Alan Watts and the meanwhile widespread worldview expressed above.

And I'm glad that music is able to connect different views and feelings - in part due to the facts that it is a language beyond words.

So: back to music?

You got it bang on right, you obviously have a purpose in your life.
The chinese don't invent a whole lot these days, Americans do.
They just make it cheap. Theres a reason for that.
To be in a state of platonic serenity, knowing I am not running the world is more easily achieved by having a purpose, not purposelessness.

I'm uncertain but music might be the audible facet of pure logic, bringing the platonic forms into auditory existence, filtered through our own particular experience.

Post by **Sharp** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:13 am

Can't begin to stress how much of a contraction the message of the video is to itself. Why even bother lifting the pebble if everything is purposeless. I personally quite enjoy seeing and experiencing everything around me which certainly proves the message in the video is nonsense to me.

While I can't talk Religion on the forum, I can call God “Nature” in the following example.

The current accepted theory to the existence of our universes is that in the beginning there were “Quantum Fluctuation” which brought into existence out of nothing, everything needed to create the big band, the universe, and my iPad.

This by default is a complete contradiction to the universe we now live in after the big bang has taken place as the conservation of energy says, nothing can be created from nothing.

Yet here we are in a universe that was defined by the laws of nature that predate the Big Bang and the existence of all matter.

Sounds to me like purpose is all around us.

Regards
Sharp

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:19 am

The message i got from this was... (my interpretation)

Don't take life to serious, don't stress, but enjoy the moments it throws at you...

Which is something i can definately see...

runningman67 · Post by **runningman67** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:03 am

Bachus wrote:The message i got from this was... (my interpretation)

Don't take life to serious, don't stress, but enjoy the moments it throws at you...

Which is something i can definately see...

This is my interpretation.
This is the beauty that I see in creating music, choosing sounds, tempo and feel. Just follow what comes natural to you and enjoy that simplicity.

Of course the purpose of life is a life of purpose or nothing would get done but I like to contemplate other philosophies which can broaden life experience, especially the connection people enjoy with music.

It's ok though, my wife calls me Pollyanna nowadays.
I'll quit the deep and meaningful posts.

kineticsoundprism · Post by **kineticsoundprism** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:33 pm

is watts hinting at some abstraction of ' purposeless ' and one that does not mean ' no purpose ' but hints at a state of mind that is beyond the need for duality ? of no purpose and a purpose all at once ?

i am reminded of the Dzogchen ideas around ' the futility of effort ' which for me point to a state of flow and effortlessness where our personal will and time and space meet perfectly

not sure whats right or wrong about that video as i cant really understand 100% if what Alan watts is saying is 100% what i think it is ? i think he simply hints at a state of mind that is beyond the need to cling to concepts like purpose and action and a state of mind where we let go , that can be interpreted as purposeless but could in itself be the ultimate purpose.

And the purpose of being here ? to realise that ? or redeem matter ? god knows ( that last statements the most dubious thing i will post )

I am left wondering more than anything else how this ties into the Kronos ? i think if there is one purpose to life its beauty and harmony realised through crisis and chaos and struggle so that gets us back to the kronos which is a thing of beauty !