"double note" keybed fault

rob_tky · Post by **rob_tky** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:49 am

Hi All,
Ever since I saw Enigma's post about K vs K2 comparison http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... 776#639776 (btw, thanks for the post!), specifically talking about the "double note" K's keybed issue, I keep hearing it more and more on my keyboard.
It's well explained in the video. It's when you play a note, it triggers but soon after cuts off or plays immediately again at very low velocity.

I heard that before on my K, thought maybe it was my playing and did not care much. But now that I know what it is, keep noticing it often. (Just like when you learn new word in a language you're studying and realize that you hear this word used everywhere now - like the whole world started using this word once you learned - sidetracking)

Or maybe it happened after I opened my K recently to put RAM in. Can it be related to that?
Is there any "tuning" or "calibration" that can be moved out of balance once keybed is moved (which happens when you open K).
Or is the issue related to just switch fault and nothing can be done?

I wonder if anyone has experience with eliminating/minimizing this effect.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:59 am

You don't specify which Kronos version you have but many (all?) early Kronos RH3 keybeds had this to some extent, due to the type of rubber key contacts used. After replacement, nearly all cases have been solved satisfactorily (going by reports on here). To my knowledge, there is no software fix or home repair. Contact your local service center if you can reliably produce this.

rob_tky · Post by **rob_tky** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:59 am

Was what I described THE issue with original RH3 keybed? I thought there was something more serious, but cannot find it now. All previous posts talk about double trigger.
I have 2011 model.
I really don't recall it happening earlier. I think it got worse over time, and now becomes more and more visible, thought it's still very rare, and I cannot recreate it

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:09 am

Double trigger/note cutoff is, as far as I know, the same issue. The second or double trigger basically cut off the previous note because it was so soft you couldn't hear it.

genehart · Post by **genehart** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:26 pm

This "double trigger" bug happened once on my kronosx in 2012 (wasn't updated to OS 2 yet), I did a reboot, then run "check medium" command in disk mode, then rebooted again. This bug never happened anymore , and
I thought it was "processor overload" issue.
I guess this may be combined "hardware+software" bug.

rob_tky · Post by **rob_tky** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:28 pm

Interesting it happened on KX too.. Thank you for sharing.

A question to anyone who had their keybed fixed.
Was the whole keybed simply replaced? or was your keybed fixed by part replacement or sth like that .?

phenaste · Post by **phenaste** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:57 pm

rob_tky wrote:Interesting it happened on KX too.. Thank you for sharing.

A question to anyone who had their keybed fixed.
Was the whole keybed simply replaced? or was your keybed fixed by part replacement or sth like that .?

Hi,

my K88 (1st generation) was faulty. First, it came back from service center with only rubber part replacement, it was more faulty than before, but at this time only pink rubbers was available.
Then I sent it again for a keyboard replacement. Now it's a "KDP" tagged keyboard, but still with pink rubbers. I'm satisfied with this one, but I've already notice some cutoff that I can't reproduce on demand. Sometimes, I heard something that remind me the cutoff on the left hand during playing but it's really rare.

I read somewhere that the problem would increase over the time.
I've already bought the new rubbers (blue/grey) and wait for a future maintenance (new SSD) to put the new rubbers.

I hope this help.

phenaste · Post by **phenaste** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:00 pm

rob_tky wrote:Interesting it happened on KX too.. Thank you for sharing.

A question to anyone who had their keybed fixed.
Was the whole keybed simply replaced? or was your keybed fixed by part replacement or sth like that .?

Hi,

my K88 (1st generation) was faulty. First, it came back from service center with only rubber part replacement, it was more faulty than before, but at this time only pink rubbers was available.
Then I sent it again for a keyboard replacement. Now it's a "KDP" tagged keyboard, but still with pink rubbers. I'm satisfied with this one, but I've already notice some cutoff that I can't reproduce on demand. Sometimes, I heard something that remind me the cutoff on the left hand during playing but it's really rare.

I read somewhere that the problem would increase over the time.
I've already bought the new rubbers (blue/grey) and wait for a future maintenance (new SSD) to put the new rubbers.

I hope this help.

rob_tky · Post by **rob_tky** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:50 pm

Thank you Phenaste.

I did not follow any earlier threads about keybed, so this whole thing is new to me. Ok, now I know kdp is new keybed type. There is also kdp1, is that newer than kdp? What was the type in original K?

Also, can you share where you got the new rubbers? Is replacement a relatively easy DIY? Calibration required?

Sorry, many questions.
If it's a DIY job I could consider changing it myself in future if it gets worse.
I'll also give a call to local service center, though I live in Japan, and this will be both a language and most likely financial challenge.

dfahrner · Post by **dfahrner** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:59 pm

rob_tky wrote:A question to anyone who had their keybed fixed.
Was the whole keybed simply replaced? or was your keybed fixed by part replacement or sth like that .?

I had the note cutoff problem right away with an original K88 that I bought as a B-stock unit (it had the pink key contacts)...the Korg repair center had it for a month and replaced the keybed under warrany, but the new one had the problem too (and had the pink contacts)...it took me another month to find the part number for the new blue contacts and get a set from PartsIsParts; I installed them myself and that fixed the problem...

df

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:46 pm

rob_tky wrote:Interesting it happened on KX too.. Thank you for sharing.

A question to anyone who had their keybed fixed.
Was the whole keybed simply replaced? or was your keybed fixed by part replacement or sth like that .?

When I had the issue on my original K, my entire keybed was replaced. I did the repair personally. There was also a setting change made in the OS. I'll see if I can dig up the original document on the keybed issue and fix. I'm sure I still have it someplace.

SORRY FOR THE LARGE IMAGES.

Here's how it shipped to the service center (notice the cardboard on the back-there's also foam keeping the keybed solid):

Side by side (old and new)

How to identify which keybed you have:

OLD

NEW

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:48 pm

It's doable but pretty tricky especially with an 88. Two of the PCBs that the contacts are on are connected by nothing but thin metal bits, seems very easy to break.

pedro5 · Post by **pedro5** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:51 pm

Rubber contact replacement is relatively straight forward to do and many owners have done it themselves,although I can't really advice anyone to do so,it's a matter of choice in taking a risk or go the recommended route and rely upon a service centre etc.(most definitely under warranty).

Whenever rubber contacts are replaced the keyboard should to be re-set to KDP1,(the original is just KDP),but many have replaced them without doing that and the keyboards continue to work effectively,it's a chance that needs further consideration.
There have been very many posts on this forum about these problems,which began some years ago and it seems to be an ongoing subject.
A google search may help find some of them, there is a wealth of useful information to be found.

dfahrner · Post by **dfahrner** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:18 pm

pedro5 wrote:Whenever rubber contacts are replaced the keyboard should to be re-set to KDP1,(the original is just KDP),but many have replaced them without doing that and the keyboards continue to work effectively,it's a chance that needs further consideration.

Is this an "official" recommendation from Korg? And how does a user do this resetting?

pedro5 · Post by **pedro5** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:32 pm

This is information that I found over the past years since the problem topic first appeared,by reading previous posts etc.
I'm not able to provide actual links at the moment,but I'm sure a search will locate some of them.

Probably not as helpful as I would like to put forward,but I can assure you the information can be found if you're prepared to read a lot.....

Good Luck.