Better DAW integration

[Bachus]

I'm not sure that me in a straight-jacket will really get their attention.

maybe if we post pictures of that? That surely would help..

[jimknopf]

If the multipost was not on purpose, just forget it.
Fascinating to get it 7 times.

I guess Korg managers ARE well aware, that Kronos users - no matter how much they like the synth - have a hard time understanding and accepting this non.communicative way, of just not delevering what is part of the package. And that happens for the second time now. It took them a full year of delay the first time, finally delivering something not convincing at all, a long time after actively advertising it as part of the Kronos buy.

[carabidus]

Now in current daw's it's quite easy to solve the 2 basic integration requirements:
- selecting the combi: you can just send a bank change and program change to your kronos to select the combi you are using for the song. I would advise to use combis for that because you can store combis in the kronos. So what i do is creating a combi with the song name, and select the programs i need (manually) in that combi and save the combi. If there was an editor outside the daw available you could also use that editor to select the programs in the combi to avoid using the touchscreen on the kronos.
Since you stored the bank number and program number of the combi in your project everything will be loaded automatically as soon as you start the song in your daw.

New Kronos & Cubase Pro 8 user here... Conceptually, I understand the idea behind filling a blank combi with the programs needed for a project. I just don't know the nuts and bolts of actually *doing* that and I am eager to kickstart the learning process. Do I need to create a new MIDI track in Cubase for each program in the combi? What settings should my Kronos have with such a setup?

My goal is to bypass the onboard sequencer entirely and use Cubase for all of my editing and post production.

Thanks in advance...

[QuiRobinez]

New Kronos & Cubase Pro 8 user here... Conceptually, I understand the idea behind filling a blank combi with the programs needed for a project. I just don't know the nuts and bolts of actually *doing* that and I am eager to kickstart the learning process. Do I need to create a new MIDI track in Cubase for each program in the combi? What settings should my Kronos have with such a setup?

For the kronos there isn't much that you need to know when you want this. But to get this to work you need to do the following:

Cubase:
- create an external instrument named Kronos where you use the Midi Port: Kronos Keyboard and the audio return channels where connected your kronos to (see the cubase connection window)
- then (IMPORTANT) load this newly created external instrument in a VST instrument Slot (see the menu option: Vst instruments), what this does is saying to cubase that you are using a multitimbral external synth (so you have 16 midi channels) and that all audio streamed by this hardware external synth is latency compensated automatically with all your other VST instruments or samples.
- Now go to the Cubase project window and add 16 midi tracks (or as much as you need)
- in the inspector of the midi track in the output dropdownbox select the loaded kronos external instrument which is now available because you have loaded it as a vst instrument
- do this for every midi channel you want to use
- beneath the output dropdownbox you can select the midi channel, start with 1 and every next midi track add 1, so you have 16 midi tracks where you are using midi channel 1, 2, 3, etc..

Korg Kronos
- press the global button
- press the midi tab and then the midi subtab
- Set Local Control On to off (you are going to use cubase for this). If you want to use KARMA then you need to leave this to on, but then you will have to pay some extra attention to the midi return channels (not part of this explanation now.)

- Now open a new combi (empty)
- press the timbre parameter tab
- at the top you see a row with the name midi channel
- set it that way that you have selected 1 for timbre 1, 2 for timbre 2, 3 for timbre 3, etc...
- now select the programs per timbre you want to use in cubase. So for instance Piano for timbre 1, bass for timbre 2, guitar for timbre 3
- save the combi with the song name so you can find it later again.

Cubase:
- go to midi track 1
- play something: you will hear the piano of timbre 1
- go to midi track 2
- play something: you will hear the bass for timbre 2.
etc..

- Record your tune in cubase
- then go the file menu and choose audioexport
- IMPORTANT! Select the realtime export checkbox, this ensures that the track is played in realtime and not rendered at a higher speed which the kronos doesn't support.
- Now all your midi tracks from the kronos will be played and combined with your vst instruments and samples in realtime and all be merged to an audio file automatically. You don't need to record each audio track seperately anymore in the kronos. Cubase will take care of that.


These are the basics of working with an external hardware synth which you want to behave more or less like a vst instruments. Once you got familiar with this procedure you can go to the next step and create an automation connection between the kronos and cubase so that you can automate the parameters of the kronos with a midi controller or by creating automation lanes in cubase.


Hope this helps.

[Synthee]

Thanks a lot Qui, for that explanation.
I will do like that with my Cubase and Kronos until maybe some VST-editor hopefully come some day.

But sadly enough audiomixdown with the sounds from Kronos included works only with Mac.
ASIO-drivers from Korg would have been great for us PC-users.
But who think about us? Its only Mac, Mac, Mac, Mac....

[QuiRobinez]

But sadly enough audiomixdown with the sounds from Kronos included works only with Mac.
ASIO-drivers from Korg would have been great for us PC-users.
But who think about us? Its only Mac, Mac, Mac, Mac....

yes, but when you are using cubase on a PC then obviously almost anyone uses an asio soundcard, most soundcards will have at least 1 stereo input, so you could use that to embed the kronos in your cubase audio path.

[Synthee]

But sadly enough audiomixdown with the sounds from Kronos included works only with Mac.
ASIO-drivers from Korg would have been great for us PC-users.
But who think about us? Its only Mac, Mac, Mac, Mac....

yes, but when you are using cubase on a PC then obviously almost anyone uses an asio soundcard, most soundcards will have at least 1 stereo input, so you could use that to embed the kronos in your cubase audio path.

Aha, so the sounds will still get into the audiomixdown.
I must try now!

[Synthee]

No, as I suspected the sounds from Kronos don't seem to be included in Audiomixdown.
I think you still have to record a stereo audio-track in Cubase with the sounds from Kronos to get them included in audiomixdown.
Or am I missing something?

[QuiRobinez]

No, as I suspected the sounds from Kronos don't seem to be included in Audiomixdown.
I think you still have to record a stereo audio-track in Cubase with the sounds from Kronos to get them included in audiomixdown.
Or am I missing something?

in the vst connections window be sure that your inputs are attached to stereo input 1 / 2

then in the External instrument step (where you create an external instrument for the kronos be sure to add the stereo input where you connected the kronos to. Then it works.

If you don't understand how to use external instruments then an alternative is to add an audio track connected to your kronos to the project window and press the Speaker monitor icon. Now when you render the song in Realtime the audio is also included since it's monitored through the audio track. However the downside of this method is that cubase doesn't do the latency compensation for this audiotrack. That's why the external instrument method is much better to keep everything sampleaccurate in sync. If persist on using the audiotrackmethod, then check the input and output latency from your audiodevice as mentioned in the device menu. Add those two values and enter that value as the track delay amount to compensate it manually. Example: input latency 5ms output 7ms, then your track delay value is 12.

[Synthee]

No, as I suspected the sounds from Kronos don't seem to be included in Audiomixdown.
I think you still have to record a stereo audio-track in Cubase with the sounds from Kronos to get them included in audiomixdown.
Or am I missing something?

in the vst connections window be sure that your inputs are attached to stereo input 1 / 2

then in the External instrument step (where you create an external instrument for the kronos be sure to add the stereo input where you connected the kronos to. Then it works.

If you don't understand how to use external instruments then an alternative is to add an audio track connected to your kronos to the project window and press the Speaker monitor icon. Now when you render the song in Realtime the audio is also included since it's monitored through the audio track. However the downside of this method is that cubase doesn't do the latency compensation for this audiotrack. That's why the external instrument method is much better to keep everything sampleaccurate in sync. If persist on using the audiotrackmethod, then check the input and output latency from your audiodevice as mentioned in the device menu. Add those two values and enter that value as the track delay amount to compensate it manually. Example: input latency 5ms output 7ms, then your track delay value is 12.

Yes, i forgot to choose the input on the external instrumnet. Thanks!

[carabidus]

Thanks so much for this explanation! I need to get on this and report back...

[genehart]

...not doing much daw things currently , but tested connecting the kronos with cubase
"the straight way" (midi in/out + optical in/out + some routing setup inside kronos and in cubase)
recorded some test-arrangement just playing with sounds that I like ..
that seems pretty enough ...
If I need to edit smth. more precisely I can do this without using kronos editor at all...
better integration mentioned here will come in it's time )

[QuiRobinez]

Thanks so much for this explanation! I need to get on this and report back...

cool,

it's not that hard to setup once you know where to find it. Also when you have created a working setup you can save it as a template in cubase. Then whenever you want to start a new kronos song you can just load that template and everything is setup correctly instantly.

This can be done in most DAW's, i also did the exact same thing in ableton live 9, so i have no doubt that other daw's also support integrating hardware synths in their audio paths.

[carabidus]

Now that I have the Kronos communicating with Cubase, how do I record KARMA data onto a track? For instance, let's say I create a MIDI track and select the German Grand Piano program for that track. With KARMA enabled, I press and hold middle C for two measures. Although I can hear the notes KARMA is generating, Cubase records only one, long and sustained note as MIDI data. I would like to capture *all* of that note data in Cubase. Any thoughts?

Thanks again for helping me out!

[Bald Eagle]

There's a detailed article about recording KARMA at karma-lab ...

http://karma-lab.wikidot.com/karma2:rec ... sequencers