Roland JD XA

Broadwave · Post by **Broadwave** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:00 am

I've bought two Roland synths in the recent past because I was convinced by the demos that they would suit me (decent music stores here in Manchester are now a rarity - sometimes I *have* to rely on video demos).

Unfortunately. they've both turned out to be lame ducks... The Gaia, although a great idea, had terrible aliasing on the Supersaw, PWM and anything approaching upper frequencies - I ditched it after a week.

The FA-06 was also announced as Roland's new "Flagship". I was looking for a replacement to my knackered Fantom X6, so I bought it straight away. While the Supernatural Acoustic and PCM engines are great, once again the VA side let it down - I have the same problems Kevin has with his JP80 - you shouldn't have to compromise when you need PWM on your sounds.

The keybed is also dreadful, cheap and over responsive - very difficult to play with any degree of control... it's sat here doing absolutely nothing, and it will be sold to help fund a second Kronos.

I've no idea why Roland moved away from the VA modeling on the JP8000 (which was superb) to using samples as a basis for their Supernatural Synth Engine.

I agree that the JDXA sounds great, so did the Gaia, so did the FA series, but my experiences with recent Roland products means it's a non starter.

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:34 am

Denvor -

You've answered your own question. A "Flagship" synth doesn't (and never has had to) hit a "price point".

It's the "Flag"

It's a statement of intent about the company. THIS is the issue for me. JD-XA, as a "Flagship" reveals the limit of Roland's ambition (not very high) and reveals, squarely, that they are being led by someone with limited vision and ambition. THAT's the issue!

The OASYS did not have a price point - it was £8000 - but - THAT allowed the wondrous - and I mean WONDROUS - instrument to emerge. The "Price point" came with the Kronos - but - critically - Korg had the initial vision to do it in two steps - enable the R&D that lead to the OASYS without limits on vision (in practical terms of course!), then recoup the money in the Kronos, but with all the expensive R&D by then done.

Who benefits - everyone - the company, the users, the future development of music technology. It was the same for the Yamaha GX1 which lead to the CS80 and all other CS spinnoffs. the same for the DX1 and GS1 that lead to the DX7. It's a proven model, but more importantly, it's THE model that leads to true innovation.

Name one item of innovation on the JD-XA. Go ahead - try it (Don't quote the combination of digital and analogue - that was done before in: Juno 106, JX range, PPG range, Emulator 2, .....) - it's an old idea.

Here's why, warts and all, the Jupiter 80 IS a flagship instrument:

- Supernatural Acoustic Tones & Behavioral Modelling (leave normal Roland bashing aside) - I've been working on optimizing these sounds for a sound set release in months to come and I can tell you, they are extraordinary. Perfect? no. Extraordinary - yes. A real, new, never before done, new innovation.

- Supernatural Synth Tones - flawed - but - new.

- Polyphony - 256 Voices

- Registrations - a way of harnessing synth sounds via Registration buttons below the keyboard akin to top Organs - and - on a par with Kronos play lists (and very powerfully different in other ways).

.....

Calling the JP-XA a flagship synth means that this is the limit of their ambition and vision. Pretty lame. Even the JD800 from 1992 is far superior in almost every regard as I outlined in posts above.

Again - JD-XA - a nice synth - don't want to knock it and may even buy one - but - as seems too often in Roland these days (and I am NOT a Roland basher - I have defended them tooth-and-nail on other forums because they ARE consistently innovative) but - there are nevertheless real issues in that company. Here are some of them:

1. The do not support instruments for long and regularly leave users stranded.

2. Their backup to USB and connectivity to computer is WOEUL

3. They do not develop class complaint drivers so instruments become useless with computer connectivity once the range is stopped (this is going to be a MAJOR problem for System-1 users once Roland stop supporting it - because System-1 Plugouts need a working Roland driver and once the next OS upgrade happens after Roland stop supporting it then System-1 will be inoperable!). Huge looming issue; yet , totally resolvable if Roland wanted to do so, but they don't, they couldn't care less.

4. Roland get it strategically wrong, even when their innovation is exquisite, too often. There seems to be a major disconnect in the company between they exquisite engineering section and their product/marketing sections. The two recent examples are a) calling the Jupiter 80 a 'Jupiter' which single handedly wrecked any chance of the instrument surviving because people were expecting a modern Jupiter 8 and b) releasing confused instruments - like the JD-XA (its confused in spec, has flaws, trying to be an EDM instruments (but is too expensive for that) and trying to be a Flagship synth. Already, across forums, people are expressing that confusion!

I realise on the face of it that this is a lot of discussion about a single instrument release - but it is bigger than this. It's about whether Roland survive, whether people trust them and buy their instruments. Yamaha are trying to come back into the synth market right now and it is clear to me from their releases and behavior that they now realise its going to be very tough - because nobody trusts them, and the new generation don't even think of Yamaha as a synth maker !

Roland are, in my opinion, getting a lot wrong strategically, even though they are probably the most innovative synth company around today; and JD-XA is the personification of their confusion, in my opinion.

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:25 pm

The USB issue is a real Roland bugbear, I am now collecting a set of Roland gear that no longer connects via USB to my computer.

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:27 pm

I think Roland addapts to the quicly changing market quite well

They must have come to a conclusion that there is not to many people left that are prepared to pay much more then €2000 for a synth.. Espescially with technollogy in any area except musical instruments becomming cheaper all the time..

So basically the Fa series are Rolands top workstations and they come at a sweet price..

The BK9 is rolands top arranger, and it comes at a nice price..

The JD-XA is their new top model solo synth...

And the aira series might be making them more money then all the three above together..

I think the market is changing, and Roland is addapting to that and still being innovative...

NuSkoolTone · Post by **NuSkoolTone** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:48 pm

Devnor wrote: Let me clue you in on some "questionable" design compromises. It has a 4 octave keyboard, wall wart power supply and only analog 4 voices because it needs to hit a certain price point. Its $2199 US. Its not a $4000 Moog Voyager and it never intended to be. Its meant to be affordable. The fact that it has a 4 octave keyboard doesn't scream EDM or anything else for that matter. Put this board in front of Jordan Rudess and he'll shred it. Give it to Geoff Downes and he'll whip out classic Yes tunes. With that JDXA, Eyal Amir will blow you away with his unique sounds and tuneage. The only limitations are yours alone.

These low rent features have generally been reserved for sub $1000 keyboards. "Flagship" aside, I'd like to know when $2199 for a non-workstation became "Cheap"? The players you mention can make an 80's home Casio keyboard sound good, so let's skip that nonsense shall we? Since you feel a 4 octave keyboard doesn't scream EDM I'm assuming you don't play much with both hands? Because it certainly does NOT scream "Pro". Given that price there's no excuse for this. ZERO!

The bottom line is: What are you getting for this "Flagship" keyboard? So far it seems the price holds up, but little else does. It looks like a cheap $800 board and I'd bet it feels like one too.

Yes it's got 4 voice "Analog" which we know NOTHING about. So what? Otherwise the rest is all repackaged stuff in a garish red blitz of backlit LEDs and sliders which look pretty crammed together with that 4 octave keyboard. I figured not to write it off until I play it, but the more I read/hear this one just seems DOA.

So it's not cheap enough for kids and doesn't meet expectations for pros, then WHO is this keyboard made for? LOL

Mr_SamDoogie · Post by **Mr_SamDoogie** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:26 am

Devnor wrote: My mantra has always been to focus on the strengths of any musical instrument. Everything has its advantages and weaknesses. Don't let the brand name get between you and the possibilities.

This is a nice quote.

MortenJ · Post by **MortenJ** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:17 am

I pre-order a Roland JD-XA it is super great it will replace my Roland JX 10 and JD 990

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:33 pm

@Mr_SamDoogie

That's a good mantra - and I follow it, personally. Every synthesizer has limitations and flaws, and as a musician I aim to use its strengths (and quirky weaknesses), creatively.

However - where I differ slightly from you is this: once an instrument has been discontinued, THAT's when I accept its limitations, completely. I'm at ease with the instrument, warts and all.

But - when the instrument is still in production, or when a future instrument is being flagged by a company - I see it as legitimate to identify flaws, limitations and problems, and flag them (from the tree tops !!).

Synth companies are very often happy for users to do this - it can act as effective beta testing, or as an effective grounds to improve an instrument on the next (OS) release.

So it is not negative to criticise an instrument - it helps improve things - once it does not become irrational (as has been quite often the case with Roland in particular - they have taken a pounding across online forums and social media in recent years).

I also agree with the sentiment that Roland is currently about ARIA and System-1 - that's where their true innovation is coming from right now.

@Morten - I would not be so quick to sell your JD990 - it's an astounding instrument and you will be VERY hard pressed to get a Supernatural Synth Tone to match its sonic character or expressiveness (I own two JD990s and Supernatural Synth Tones are significantly more simplistic in architecture, especially with regard to LFO's and Modulation routing.)

fjs714 · Post by **fjs714** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:32 pm

Hi Kevin,
I also have a Jupiter 80 and enjoy it very much. Can you speak more about the soundset you're working on?
Frank

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Fri May 22, 2015 8:41 pm

Demo models of the synth will soon arive at the dealers..

And the more we learn about this synth, the better the story gets..

Seems the controlls cann be setup to controll daw and plugins as well as modules.

I think we will see this synth end on top of many a Kronos, they will make a great combo

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Sat May 23, 2015 6:00 pm

fjs714 wrote:Hi Kevin,
I also have a Jupiter 80 and enjoy it very much. Can you speak more about the soundset you're working on?
Frank

Hi Frank - just seeing your message now. Obviously don't want to say too much before release - suffice it to say it will enable Supernatural Acoustic Tones in a far superior and convenient way than the Roland factory programs.

It's some months from release (being done amongst other things, but I assure you, a huge amount of thought and experimentation is being put into it. I think the results will be very pleasing to purists, high end recording and performing requirements !!).

Regards,
Kevin.

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:02 pm

So have any of you actually bought the JD-Xa yet? I hear the demos and it sounds pretty good to me, I see potential.

cello · Post by **cello** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:08 pm

Bertotti wrote:So have any of you actually bought the JD-Xa yet? I hear the demos and it sounds pretty good to me, I see potential.

I've ordered two of them. The possibilities are that strong for me. One will go through my MX-1 (AIRA) and the other will be 'free-running'.

I believe they arrive late June/early July here in the UK.

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:40 am

Please post up your thoughts once you have some quality time with it! Thanks!

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:41 pm

You certainly can use this synth in creative ways and have fun with it.

Still I'm quite sure that it will be anything but a modern classic, looking like a cheap vanity fair LED light show to me, with an ultra ugly reflective skin showing each finger print in detail, and sound possibilities which invite toying around, but don't convince me like the concept of the V-synth did.

In the German Amazona test they said the only analog thing about the analog section were the filters (still liking the sound). If that would be true, even these four voices would just be "analog" and not analog. They seem to sound ok, though they don't show much character to my ears, not really coming close to something like the sound of the Prophet 6 from my view.

So spending ~2000 dollars for it depends on your purpose: if you can really use it, just buy and enjoy it!