Yamaha Reface

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:19 pm

Joe Gerardi wrote:At 499.00 US street price (each) does anyone think they're going to lay out 2 grand to get all of them, only to have 4 mini-keys, severely-limited-in-features (as in: no pedal inputs on most, USB MIDI only, and no patch storage on some) slabs?

Why the assumption that you need to get all of them? Or would even want to? I'm sure some target users (especially someone buying their first keyboard ever) will be happy with one.

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:31 pm

Joe Gerardi wrote:I don't get the "stunning sound" bit.

...

Then listen to this travesty and see if your opinion doesn't change:

https://youtu.be/mi3Gas3-XnQ

..Joe

Can you be specific about what in this video you have a problem with. I'm interested to know.

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:50 pm

Just watched that video, they sound good to me!

The bass line in the first section is a bit nasty but I don't think we can blame the machines for that.

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:05 pm

Yes, I think they sound first rate.

What DOES bewilder me about the whole release is that Yamaha are not focusing on EDM like I thought they would from the form factor.

Instead - here we have seasoned pro keyboardists trying to manoeuvre their way around mini-keys.

And the more you look at that with regard to the YC and CP, the more ridiculous it looks.

These are really "keyboards" - for players - but - not made to be!

Usually with releases that are contentious the situation is one where the company knows what they were doing but that didn't sit with a lot of potential users - like System-1 which is squarely for EDM artists - Roland intended that and everybody agrees that's their primary purpose.

But for these - there seems to be confusion within Yamaha. They have released devices with a great sound, innovative control surfaces and architecture, built to extremely high quality - to be played - and demonstrate them ONLY as instruments to be played - but then give them mini-keys.

Utterly bewildering!

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:01 pm

I must admit I'm interested in the DX one, it would have been great if they made it in a little desktop module with the screen and controls but no keyboard.

Post by **Sharp** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:57 am

BobTheDog wrote:I must admit I'm interested in the DX one, it would have been great if they made it in a little desktop module with the screen and controls but no keyboard.

Even with a maximum polyphony of 8 notes ?

Sharp.

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:07 am

There are always limitations. Rick Wakeman was pretty handy with one note on a Minimoog!

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:04 am

Sharp wrote:
BobTheDog wrote:I must admit I'm interested in the DX one, it would have been great if they made it in a little desktop module with the screen and controls but no keyboard.
Even with a maximum polyphony of 8 notes ?

Sharp.

I'm a guitar player, any more than 6 just confuses me

Derek Cook · Post by **Derek Cook** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:04 am

BobTheDog wrote:I must admit I'm interested in the DX one, it would have been great if they made it in a little desktop module with the screen and controls but no keyboard.

They did (not with a screen, though); years ago: The DX200....

Will sound even better as it's a PLG150-DX inside it, which is 6 OP FM

Derek Cook · Post by **Derek Cook** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:12 am

Broadwave wrote:
But I still don't get it... an iPad with a few good softsynths and a smaller controller will still be a far more efficient way of creating music "on the go".

+1000

That is my point on several forums (Fora?) now. Why would I be interested in one of these, where for that price I can load an iPAD (and have done) with a sequencer like Cubasis and soft synths like Moog Animoog, Arturia iSEM, iMini and iProphet, Waldorf Nave, Sunrizer (very powerful synth), Korg Gadget and iM1. I then have a choice of Korg Nanokey or a 2 octave Line 6 USB keyboard depending on the size of my suitcase and luggage allowance!

But as per earlier posts, I am not in Yamaha's target market for this one - from the demo videos these Reface devices do sound good, but the form factor really isn't for me. So this current release, doesn't stop me pondering why Yamaha are not making a true Kronos competitor - i.e. a workstation with integrated sound engines (like the EX5), and not just an evolution of AWM2.

John Hendry · Post by **John Hendry** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:42 pm

Wow... look at Sharp's new look... has Sharp gone FPV? With the advancement of RC models exposing the power of time it wouldn't surprise me. What a great time to be a kid... with small fingers growing up. Just got two new RC planes this week, an awesome 200 gram 35in Tristania mini 3D EPP foam plane that uses 4 servos for advanced 3D setups with a sweet little 1900 KV motor for less than $40 with the mini servos that not long ago would have been over $60 just for the servos alone, and a much larger beautiful 2000mm full house (6 control surfaces plus throttle) Phoenix 2000 motor glider with light weight blow molded fuselage that's better than fiberglass for.... $55 plus $10 bucks for a high quality 1100KV 300w+ motor and all for less than $110 with shipping! It's absolutely amazing how fast the RC industry is advancing. And now look at Sharp... he looks even sharper than before;-) He looks ready. Totally styling... I need to work on my image! I'm gonna have to put some Fatshark goggles on my Avatar so I can look cool too. Well... it's not actually "my" Avatar... but it sure can keep a beat with e-motion.

And speaking of X-rays... and the Noble Prize for physics.... guess who's post on Scientific America got filed as Noble Prize support paper #43 for the discovery of superluminal velocities of X-Rays and Bharant radiation. That's almost as hard to believe as seeing Sharp looking even sharper than before. Nothing can go faster than the speed of light... not unless you have the right shades on. There's always a logical explanation for everything to explain why anything is possible. e{a}/t=hv

Post by **Sharp** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:34 pm

Why fly an RC when you can fly like Superman yourself. That thing strapped to my face is a Virtual Reality headset called Oculus Rift that gives you the full sensation as if your in another world.

I couldn't even explain how revolutionary this is beyond any other entertainment system in existence. It makes a 3D TV look like a Cave Drawing.

It makes enjoying music unexplainable too. I've stood in a alien world as the ground moved to the beat of the music during a sun rise, and I watched Robots 1000 feet tall march to the beat as I stood on the ground only feet from them looking up, fraid of being stood on.

Regards
Sharp.

Joe Gerardi · Post by **Joe Gerardi** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:31 pm

Kevin Nolan wrote:
Joe Gerardi wrote:I don't get the "stunning sound" bit.

...

Then listen to this travesty and see if your opinion doesn't change:

https://youtu.be/mi3Gas3-XnQ

..Joe
Can you be specific about what in this video you have a problem with. I'm interested to know.

I'm not talking about the crappy time, listen to the CS in the looper: Do you hear the tinny digital-ness of a sound that's supposed to fat analog? Does this sound better (or even close to) a Novation MiniNova? No, and the MiniNova is a hundred bucks cheaper, and has far more features.

Does that sound like a Hammond to you? Because to me, it sounds no better than the late '60s Yamaha EX-42. And there's no Leslie at all, just a wanky vibrato, which is at the wrong speed, BTW.

Does the DX sound any better than a DX100? It has the same polyphony, 24 to Reface's 32 memory locations, and can be had for about 100 bucks.

Finally the CP: Why? Piano is a two-handed instrument. here, you can barely use one. The sounds are okay, maybe even good, but with an unplayable instrument, it's like putting makeup on a sow- you can doll her up, but she's still a sow.

Really: if I'm jonesing that badly to play while I'm out camping, I'll bring a Casio battery powered- better keys, as acceptable a sound, and 1/2 the price.

It just seems to me that everyone soooo excited that Yamaha has produced anything new in such a long time that you're all willing to cut them as much slack as they're willing to take and accept whatever dross they put out there, just because it says "Yamaha" on it. I'm sorry: I consider myself a musician first, and the instrument is my tool- the toolbox has to have competent equipment in it- Snap-On, for example, and these seem like Harbor Freight to me.

..Joe

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:32 pm

Looking at sharp's post, we got two completely different "reface" options obviously.

But Yamaha hasn't scared me out of reality, to seek refuge in virual reality, yet, certainly not by the sheer veiw of four heavily overpriced halfbaked gadets summing up to 2000 bucks.

I completely agree with Joe:
- the far and wide only of the gadets having a sound worth mentioning is the CP. I really like it's EP sounds, though it doesn't make much sense to omit any halfway decent piano sound from that concept. But not even 4 octaves for a 2 hand instrument? Really? And no presets to store sounds with your own effects settings? I think that's just utterly poor.

And concerning sound, just as Joe put it:
- for the DX, you have better options out there
- the organ just sounds poor and cheesy
- and a mediocre VA with a 1osc design and a crippled UI certainly won't provoke a storm of enthusiasm either. The limited polyphony is no problem to me: I would love to play a Prophet 6 with only six voices, since that one really sounds great.
If at least the four UIs would have been better (simple is ok, but smart usability is equally important). A wasted chance IMHO.

The whole thing looks more and more like a cheap effort to print money, getting people to pay too much for that offer by trying to spread hype without much reason.

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:06 pm

Derek Cook wrote:
BobTheDog wrote:I must admit I'm interested in the DX one, it would have been great if they made it in a little desktop module with the screen and controls but no keyboard.
They did (not with a screen, though); years ago: The DX200....

Will sound even better as it's a PLG150-DX inside it, which is 6 OP FM

I think the screen is the most appealing bit, reminds me a bit of the OP1 screen.

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