PA4X vs T5 basic comparison

[Bachus]

Hi AdmirR

Can you explain please why unfriendly?
On gig I play Tyros only trough registrations.If you use them right ,there is nothing more powerfull then Registrations.

I found the registrations like going back several years - dealing with numbers - I much prefer the ability to create performance set lists (full registration including the ability to display song structure notes/chords arrangement, tempos, start up settings, key transpose etc… selection by actual song name not numbers).

Here's a nice demo on how to create Registrations on T4
https://youtu.be/kTezAE86ftk

- BUT how is one expected to "remember" what is where when you're gigging and you've created 200 registrations?
That was my point (again - personal needs) - as I asked above

I found the "Registrations" to be horrible and archaic - what was I missing? (serious question)

I am seriously keen to know if I have missed something here and NOT picking a PA/Tyros fight
On my PA my set list is displayed in front of me in the song sequence I choose for the gig and can be modified in a few seconds and I can switch set lists in a second.

Cheers

Pete

This has been discussed massively on PSRtutorial Tyros Forums, and most pro users are in agreeement that either you should be able to assign Performance memmorie banks to your Music finder..

On top of that sepperate setlists would also be a very welcome feature to a T5..

They been wanted by the Tyros community for many years now, and i dont see a reason why Yamaha has never added them. Unless they want to chase away pro players and discourage people to use the T5 as a life instrument

[Bachus]

Tyros5 can play MIDI song and STYLE and MP3 at same time...

This is a very very strong function of the T5, espescially when playing modern dance music it opens some unlimmited potential

However, it would be even stronger with a chord sequencer...

But You can play tricks with this, have a channel with cords on your sequencer, then send it to your Laptop or ipad and route the midi back and use it as import for your styles and midi pads... so i have 4 markers, 4 pads, and 4 variations to play around with and mix my dance music..

If you take a Tyros and use it out of the box its incredibly more prowerfull, as you can take it beyound the limitations Yamaha puts on them.. For example the Ensemble voices, i can midi them out over 4 sepperate midi channels, and then add them to VSTs, Kronos, or a module like Integra 7. and use 4 synth sounds on it.. but i can also route it back to my Tyros and use it as input for the song mode and use 4 standard Tyros voices instead of just the satndard ensemble voices.

[BiHSound]

I have the following packs (SETs) loaded into my Tyros 5. Their total size is approx 600MB.

Emomuzik Turkish
Middle Eastern
Balkan & Turkey
Euro Dance
My friend's pack
My own pack

It takes approx. 20 minutes for the 1GB module to format and load these packs, via USB. Wirelessly it always takes longer, but I do not know how long as I never use this feature. When powering the instrument to ON there is no wait time, the sample module is a non-volatile memory module and the expansion samples/styles are regarded as ROM material.

The only con to this is that even if you want to modify/edit one sample you need to reload everything. To solve this problem, in a way, Yamaha gave the users a PC tool to create the sounds and to test them directly from the PC before loading into the instrument.

@karmathanever - Friend you mentioned that you did not like the registrations which is perfectly understandable as you are probably used to the Pa performances. There is one easier way you could have saved your performances. You could have saved your "performance" as a style (for each performance create/copy the style and rename it as your performance). The pro to this is that you are unlimited to the number of styles on the hard disk, you can organize them in folders, you can slightly adjust the style as needed, and for each style you have 4 single touch settings. The only con is that you would have a lot of duplicate style (ex. if you use the same style for 10 different performances). Also, if I remember correctly there is an iPad app that enables you to create a "set list" performances for the Tyros (I will try to find its name tonight and let you know).

My personal opinion is that Pa3x, Pa4x, and Tyros5 arrangers are the best hardware arrangers at the moment. I am a huge fan of these arrangers. Even though at the moment I do not own a Pa, I do own a Kronos which I love very much and will never sell it.

[karmathanever]

@karmathanever - Friend you mentioned that you did not like the registrations which is perfectly understandable as you are probably used to the Pa performances.

Hi BiHSound

Thanks for your tips re performances but I actually never use performances for song set up - I use custom lists - these are perfect for live set lists and perfect for instantly loading songs whether STYLE-backing, MP3-backing or MIDI file-backing. They are easy to manage, change and shuffle and I can instantly see all my songs (by name) and as necessary have text support for songs on the lyrics screen.
I use performances purely for total keyboard sound registrations - i.e. loading UPPER1-3 and LOWER sounds - I don't often use the performance-style-load feature (certainly not for live gigs).
I have some customised STYLEs for certain songs but mostly use them as is but still call them up from my custom set lists. It is amazing how different a style will sound at different tempos and with different sounds and different combinations of muted tracks - so so simple to modify.

I just don't like "registrations" - it takes me back to my old Yamaha keyboard days - had to have a reference of some sort to remember the registrations.

Anyhow, thanks again - really appreciate you taking the time.

Pete

[Dikikeys]

If Korg want to look ahead to the NEXT level, they need to understand that a graphical touch surface can be a lot more powerful than they currently allow.

From hardcore freeplay style users, to DJ style players, to SMF and style Songbook users, no two people's needs or wants when it comes to screen layout is ever going to be the same. So why not allow the USER to customize what is active on any screen at any one time?

It should be fairly easy to come up with a PC app that can 'copy/paste' different controls and screen buttons/sliders onto a blank page or two per Performance or Songbook entry. After all, it is all simply software, no physical controls to reroute, disconnect, etc.. Allow the user to lay it out on the screen the way they want it to, and watch our minds explode when we finally realize we can put OUR most needed controls all in one place (or two)...

Despite it being a BOTL new arranger (or low MOTL if you prefer), the new little E-A7 Roland has up to nineteen buttons on the front panel all freely assignable (to a large degree) to be whatever you want or need. Looks like Roland have given up on touch screens for a while (which is a shame, because the old G70's put most everyone to shame in layout and responsiveness), but at least the new design team realize that everyone uses their arranger in different ways. It is no longer 'one size fits all'.

Korg could fairly easily leverage the power of the touch screen to allow us to customize our needs, even without making the front panel buttons more configurable (which would also be nice!)

[AdmirR]

I just don't like "registrations" - it takes me back to my old Yamaha keyboard days - had to have a reference of some sort to remember the registrations.

Anyhow, thanks again - really appreciate you taking the time.

Pete

Why should you need to remember the registrations.
Each Registrations Bank can be named same as Korg perfomenance.
And You can see them on screen same as Perfomenance.
Bat,The registrations bank have extra 8 bottons that you can use them in That Registrations Bank for everything you need.
So i Play live,Midi songs and styles and trough Registrations bank call them ,load them,switch do whatever I want.and goes what?I do not need to look on screen,and look for enithing else.
Whatever you setup into Registrations Bank is there any time you need.
Its hard to explain but I can thall you most of Yamaha users curently DAS NOT KNOW how use Registrations!

Also as you se I have PA900 and I lowe him wery much.There is a lot stuf better on KORG than on Yamaha.So I love Bouth of my babys:Tyros5 and PA900

regards

[siebenhirter]

Tyros5 Registrations memory are much more powerfull compare Korg Perfomenance ....

If one does not use Korgs Pa-Keyboards out-of-box with factory-performances but organizing performance-memory for ones personal needs, one can use gbl-files in the same manner as Yamaha-keyboards use registration-memories.
Also one can use 8 (16) buttons for direct-access of registrations as Yamaha did, if using performance-memory in auto-select-mode.
*
if organized performance-memory - maybe a Pa3x in a matrix of 16 columns (performance-bank-nr) and 32 rows (performances) - for ones need, create and write different global auto performances (maybe 100 or 1000) to your memory ("WriteGlobal - AutoSelectSetup"+"WriteAutoSelect to memory" ). After you did that one after one, save each global to an external device and detach "setup.gbl" from the setup-folder, position that gbl-file to root directory and rename it to maybe beginning with MyPrf001.gbl or whatelse one need (MyPrf002.gbl .... MyPrf999.gbl etc).

Each of that MyPrfNNN.gbl is a Link-List to that 16 performances last used in each performance-bank and maybe loaded within 5 - 10 seconds with media/select Myprfnnn.gbl/load/yes. Size of one gbl-file ca 1,9KB (very small -quick to load).

If organzing performance-memory in intelligent manner also corresponding in rows, auto-select-performance is possible to expand with up/down-function (maybe by an assignable-switch). as up/down has its own link-point, one not only can use horizontal auto-select-performance like Yamaha with its direct-access-buttons, but also vertical in that performance-matrix with up/down-buttons or pedal. auto-select-performance always has priority - selected performance also is starting-point for next up/down-selection.

Do not use performance-memory you get out-of-box and full-filled subsequently as most users did usually. Precondition for this kind of using performances like Yamaha-Registrations is a personalized structured performance-memory as required for ones habits.

Using STS or/and Songbook-Entries do not disturb that kind of using Auto-select-performances and maybe used as good combinations.

I wonder why few use that kind of selecting performance - maybe it is not published in manuals as necessary.
One disadvantage is the function common for both sounds and performances, preventing individual direct access of sounds for background- and realtime-tracks. As i do not select individual sounds during a session, this is no important criteria - trying different sounds better during preparation and organization.
*
Fact is - registrations are selectable with 8 (16) direkt-acess-buttons in same manner as Yamaha do (but buttons are not numbered).

PS: Hope, my English is good enough to be comprehensible.

[AdmirR]

Hi siebenhirter

Very interesting post.

So please maybe you can help

I will explain 2 way of use Registrations,so If you help me to doo that on Korg (PA900) I will big thank you.

OPTIONS 1

Registrations Bank named Song-1

Use Midi File (total play 14 tracks in Midi)but I also sing and PLAY solo with right hand:

Botton-1:
R1-Acordion,R2-Organ,R3-OFF,##MIDI tracks 1,4, OFF all other chanels ON,##Multi pad:arpegio-1,##Mic harmony-USER1 OF

Botton-2:
R1-strings,R2-strings -1 octave,R3 Strings +1octave,##MIDI tracks 2,13OFF all other ON,##Multi pad USER2,##Mic Harmony USER1 ON.

Botton-3:
R1-Violin,R2-OFF,R3-OFF,,##MIDI tracks 1,4, OFF all other chanels

and 5 other with diferente setups as you se.

So when I call registrations and start play ,all song i am chancging 8 off Bottons wich are right above my right hand.No tuch screen or enithyng else,no change Perfomenance,all this I doo under one single perfomenance-Reg Memory
----------------------------------------

SONG-2 Registrations Bank play with two styles:

Botton1:R1-Acordion,R2 Acordion+Harmony USER1,R3-OFF.
STYLE 7/8 tempo 130
Multi pad USER 1

Botton2:R1-strings,R2-strings -1 octave,R3 Strings +1octave,
Style 7/8 tempo 130
Multi pad USER1

Botton3:R1-Synth ,R2 Organ+Harmony USER1,R3-OFF.
STYLE 7/8 tempo 130
Multi pad USER 1

Botton4:R1-Violin,R2 Acordion+Harmony USER1,R3-OFF.
STYLE 7/8 tempo 130
Multi pad USER 1

Botton5:R1-Acordion,R2 Acordion+Harmony USER1,R3-OFF.
STYLE 2/4 tempo 110
Multi pad USER 1

all rest 5-8 are same as 2-4 only diferente is style 2/4.
.........................

How I can do this on KORG?

Only 1 Perfomenance and change all theese SETUP's with bottons(You said 16 can be asigneable)

Thank you

[karmathanever]

Thanks AdmirR - appreciated.
I'm glad I wasn't missing or misunderstanding anything with my Tyros.

Cheers

Pete

[AdmirR]

Well Pete

I am realy like to see how I can do this on my pa900

Realy,,, will help me a lot.

As somebody said:Nobady same,everybody do diferente way.
But on Gig I do NOT like look at screen an try to find stuff.

The only closest way I use on KORG is that: Styles with TS.

[nitecrawler]

Tyros5 have Audio Multi pads ?

What's that?

You can create and play audio multi pads directly from HD

Is that similar to what the 4 pad buttons can do on the Pa3xle? These buttons can play hits, repetitive riffs, solos etc. Both " in house" as well as user created. I have not fully explored yet, but do use in my live playing.

[siebenhirter]

.. maybe you can help ..

.. hope so
It seems to be most important for you, to use buttons instead searching/touching a display - and you do not like to look to your display - and you need direct-access with buttons.

If you prepare your settings as listed in your performance-memory, you can use 8 (16 in Pa3x) buttons for direct-access if using performance-memory in auto-select-mode - like selection of registrations as Yamaha did.

As mentioned in my posting, precondition for this kind of using performances like Yamaha-Registrations is a personalized structured performance-memory as required for ones habits.
That is most important to use "Auto-Select" as described.
*
Also hope Pa900 have same data structure and features as previous productline (Pa500, 800, 3x) and file "Setup.gbl" is useful in same manner to be successful with my settings.

Now - if you organized your settings and saved to performance-locations maybe like:

Option1, Button1 - 8 maybe in Performance-Bank/Performance-Nr 1/12, 2/17, 3/28, 4/32, 5/32, 6/09, 7/10, 8/12
and for your Option2 maby in 1/22, 2/05, 3/28, 4/17, 5/12, 6/09, 7/03, 8/01.
*
Now prepare Option1:
For Button1 go to Perf-Bank1 and select Perf-Nr 12 (1/12).
For Button2 go to Perf-Bank2 and select Perf-Nr 17 (2/17).
.
.
For Button8 go to Perf-Bank8 and select Perf-Nr 12 (8/12).

If you did so, latest selected Performance in Banks are 1/12, 2/17, 3/28, 4/32, 5/32, 6/09, 7/10, 8/12.
Now in Globals check Parameter "Auto Select - Performance" and press "Save". Now this way you can assign this preferred performances just with a single press of performance-buttons. As saved, you also will find the saved assignment when turning the instrument on again.

Next step - if you want save that assignment as one assignment within others, save your Globals to an external device. Search for setup.gbl and rename it to whatever you want - maybe MyOpt001.gbl and copy that file to root-directory for to be loadable very quick (file maybe 2,0K).
*
Now prepare Option2:
For Button1 go to Perf-Bank1 and select Perf-Nr 22 (1/22).
.
.
For Button8 go to Perf-Bank8 and select Perf-Nr 01 (8/01).

Now do same as with Option1, save Globals Auto-Select to your memory, save Globals to external device, rename now setup.gbl to maybe MyOpt002.gbl and copy that file to root-directory.

**
So when you want to play with Option1, go load MyOpt001.gbl (media/Select myopt001.gbl/load/yes), call your registrations with eight buttons and start to play, changing registrations also with that eight buttons without touching screen or changing performances manually.

Do same with option2, but loading myopt002.gbl.

Best of all: you can use that kind of selecting performances in combination with STS, Songbook-Entries and also with Up/Down-Button/Pedal. This because setup.gbl is a tiny file of 16 links to performance-locations last used (nothing else). If using up/down-selection it is similar - that is a link to a horizontal-position of performance-locations. if using auto-select und up/down-selection you are moving like in a selection-matrix (auto-select is priority, rewriting up/down-position).

[AdmirR]

Thank you

[siebenhirter]

Continuation - even one understand the contexts for auto-select, it may be easier to use for one than for me to explain this.

Statement in short for auto-select:
- one can save last checked performance-positions of all performance-banks in a link-list to this positions
- create that link-list in Globals, checking Parameter "Auto Select - Performance"
- pressing "Save" to save this link-list to internal memory
- save Globals as Set to an external device to get a Setfile
- use directory/subdirectory of this setfile to find the file setup.gbl
- for quick-access copy the file setup.gbl to root-directory
and rename it (file extension must be gbl)
- load renamed gbl files to be used for direct-accessing eight performances by simple button-press

Once again - to be useful advantageous for this kind of using performances by button-press-direct-access maybe a personalized structured performanc-memory as required for ones habits.

PS: There are some more of hidden possibilities with features of Pa-keyboards one can not find in Korg-manuals.

[Dikikeys]

This is all good information, but is there any chance of copy/pasting it, and placing it in a thread about Registration equivalency in Korg's (or whatever you prefer to call it), to make it easily searchable and also not derail the original intent of the thread?

It's a great tutorial, but it's on a thread about a T5/PA4X comparison, and may be missed by a lot of readers...