File mess and backups: MAYDAY!

laandodeman · Post by **laandodeman** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:40 pm

I tried to tidy up my directory on the Kronos and deleted some old files. I was pretty confident I could do this since I had made many backups with userbanks loaded with samples.

However, when I tried to restore my backup, it did not work.

First, the Kronos told me "The following KSC files refer to unavailable sample data: *_userbank.ksc".

Then I tried to load manually and the Kronos said: "KSC is incomplete due to uninstalled EXs ??10 ?? 7 ?? etc.

How is this possible? I always thought that for your backups you need only these files?

*.KSC
*.KGE
*.USERBANK.KSC
*.PGB and
the folder with the same name as the files.

But apparently it's not enough? When touring I always carry around a USB with these files, confident that if my Kronos would break down, I could rent another one and put my entire setup in by loading these files?

How do I fix this?

Dniss · Post by **Dniss** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:03 pm

The way Kronos reference and cross-reference samples as always been har d to grasp. For me, anyway.

If someone coule make a tutorial convering the whole samples management section, I'm sure it would help many users.

kronoSphere · Post by **kronoSphere** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:08 pm

the word is SAVE ALL. After every work I have done I always use SAVE ALL. Yes it takes a lot of space but there are external hard drives for that. No more problems.

laandodeman · Post by **laandodeman** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:13 pm

kronoSphere wrote:the word is SAVE ALL. After every work I have done I always use SAVE ALL. Yes it takes a lot of space but there are external hard drives for that. No more problems.

Did that!

Apparently, if you SAVE ALL, and save it under a new name, the Kronos needs the files that you backupped before under the SAVE ALL command as well! It is a cumulative process. So if you carefully backup your system every month, and after three years decide to clean up, you can't, because then it doesn't work anymore!

Or, Korg, please tell me that I am wrong?

Dniss · Post by **Dniss** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:20 am

You might want to read Danakorg's post on managing samples, it has helped on some issue in the past.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... +mode+data

vstkeys · Post by **vstkeys** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:47 am

Oh man tell me about it!!
After hours edting a 8 layer multisample, I 'saved all'' and then wanted to be a good boy because I thought I would have two instances of the same sample taling space on the hd.
I went ahead and deleted the other files folders !! Booted kronos and got the missing samples message, looked inside user ksc and the folder with the name of my samples was red. What a nightmare.

So i had to do all again and now i think i have two instances of the same. Would be great if korg put a plain english write on how to safelly save your samples etc as Im guessing save all is just makes a link to your samples and not resaving them

Broadwave · Post by **Broadwave** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:38 am

The only advice I can give is - FTP Networking.

Before I do any thing that I "suspect" may mess up my Kronos, I back everything up to my Mac via FTP first.

Don't take chances.

kronoSphere · Post by **kronoSphere** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:51 am

I have kept since my first Kronos day (ho yeah !) each of my "SAVE ALL" back-ups + each of the original PRELOAD of each sys-version. All these are classified and I can go backward to each of them without any loss of sample data and works. If you do this then you can clean at any time your Kronos whenever you want because : You still have all your works and all samples data saved on external devices.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:07 pm

[duplicate]

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:09 pm

vstkeys wrote:Oh man tell me about it!!
After hours edting a 8 layer multisample, I 'saved all'' and then wanted to be a good boy because I thought I would have two instances of the same sample taling space on the hd.
I went ahead and deleted the other files folders !! Booted kronos and got the missing samples message, looked inside user ksc and the folder with the name of my samples was red. What a nightmare.

So i had to do all again and now i think i have two instances of the same. Would be great if korg put a plain english write on how to safelly save your samples etc as Im guessing save all is just makes a link to your samples and not resaving them

Unfortunately, it sounds like you may have made things more complicated than they need to be.

If something like this does happen, you can fix references if necessary, and it's pretty simple to do.

Descriptions of all of this are in plain English, in the manuals, written by me. Make sure that you have the latest versions of the PDFs (currently version E9). If, after reading them, things still seem unclear, then please feel free to ask specific questions and I'll try to make sure that they are answered.

laandodeman · Post by **laandodeman** » Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:17 pm

danatkorg wrote:
Descriptions of all of this are in plain English, in the manuals, written by me. Make sure that you have the latest versions of the PDFs (currently version E9). If, after reading them, things still seem unclear, then please feel free to ask specific questions and I'll try to make sure that they are answered.

As a topic starter, let me get back to your offer Dan, as I still struggle with it. Hope you still have some patience with me.

I carefully studied the manual, especially the part on User Sample Banks (page 154- 156) and the part starting with "Automatically Loading Sample Data, from page 164 onwards to 166 (version E9). I suppose that is the part you meant?

My main problem is that I will be touring internationally and want to be able to transfer to a rented Kronos the many samples (soundscapes) which I have created myself and saved under about 15 different KCS's.

If I do what's in the mentioned parts in the manual (especially the part on "Creating a new KSC by loading individual Multisamples"), I do get a new userbank, but if i check, the KSC has so little data in it, that it is quiet improbable that all my samples are in it. So probably the new userbank still refers to files on the Kronos HD itself, but as a single file, it is not transferable.

So how can I make sure that my userbank not only has the right cross references on my own Kronos HD, but is also easily transferable to other Kronosses?

Or in other words, my question is: is it possible to create a new transferable userbank with all the samples I made earlier?

Or is the solution that I copy-paste all the other 15 userbanks as well to another Kronos?

amit · Post by **amit** » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:34 pm

Here's a thing.
If you move the samples to Different directories then the programs will have issues, as they (_userbank) have hardcoded paths in them.

I did reorganize my internal Hdd and had to deal with this.

so to solve, load your original samples ksc in ram (not the userbank) using clearall option and then save the ksc (save sampling data).
this should likely fix the issues.

if this does not work then, you'll have to remap the programs.
for that I would first save sampling data and create a new id. then use remap reference and set this new ksc as target library.

media-igor · Post by **media-igor** » Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:33 pm

I constantly exchanging data between the two Kronos via a USB flash drive. No problem if all the information on the HDD on both KRONOS - the same. Do not forget that streaming audio is from the hard drive. So if even if you have a file * _UserBank.KSC (which you received when "Save All"), but lacks any file on your hard drive (it is referenced * _UserBank.KSC), it will not work!

So - is not enough to convey on another KRONOS files and the appropriate folders, which are obtained by running the command "Save All":

- *.KGE,
- *.KSC,
- *_UserBank.KSC
- *.PCG,
- *.SNG!

If the file has been moved to a different location on the hard disk KRONOS can find it quickly.

laandodeman · Post by **laandodeman** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:18 am

WOW! I think I finally did it. Took me many hours, but I have a backup now of my files, multisamples, programs etc which I can transfer to another Kronos. I am still not certain, so I want to check with another Kronos soon, but I think it works.

This, in my analysis were the factors that made it so complex:

* In the past, without knowing, I worked cumulatively, meaning that when adding new samples and using the "Save all" command, my new userbanks were referring to earlier userbanks. I think that I had more than 30 userbanks hidden in my latest one. This meant that when I only took the latest userbank on a USB, the Kronos couldn't find the earlier ones and I got stuck.
* So when I realised this, I had to find out where the earlier samples were on the HDD and load them into sampling mode userbank for userbank, in the sampling mode data.
* When combining differenc KSC's on the basis of the steps laid out by Dan at Korg, things get messed up because I didn't know how to deal with linking samples of these different KSCs to the different PCGs. I still struggle with this.
* I still don't understand how the "save sampling data" actually works. It is hard to oversee the consequences of creating new ID's and/or working with or without links between programs and samples and what the difference is between them.

So honestly, I still don't understand exactly why the pathway I used to finally solve the problem works and others don't. But I am not compalining anymore

So thanks to all of you guys who gave me tips and parts of the puzzle.