Style Endings?

DonM · Post by **DonM** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:35 pm

Does anyone know if they improved some of the style endings. Quite a few on the PA3X are really bad; they just STOP, no decay, nothing. It would be easy to do them right, because many of them ARE done right.
I've brought this up before and it doesn't seem to bother too many users, but I can't see why it doesn't.
DonM

korgpask · Post by **korgpask** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:29 pm

New styles are very good.

Dikikeys · Post by **Dikikeys** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:41 am

One thing I'd like to see on ALL arrangers' Endings is the ability for the arranger to 'hold' the final notes for as long as you hold the chord recognition.

Roland don't have this, it's a huge issue unless you edit the style (and it never fixes it, as the ending 'hold' depends a lot on the song).

DonM · Post by **DonM** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:43 am

Some of the PA3x endings don't even have one measure of "hold". They just stop. Silence.
DonM

Dikikeys · Post by **Dikikeys** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:30 am

Just curious, but has any arranger got the 'hold final chord until release' feature?

If not, wow, there's something REALLY useful to us all. A drum flourish upon release might also be pretty cool...

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:20 am

Just curious, but has any arranger got the 'hold final chord until release' feature?

Also curious - Hold what exactly? Style endings are MIDI and so they have a fixed length - what are you wanting to "hold until release"? an example maybe? (serious question).

I have not yet encountered an ending as being quite like Don mentioned - I'm sure they exist - an example would be great Don - thanks.

Pete

DonM · Post by **DonM** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:48 am

I'll record some in the couple of days. My PA3X is packed up for work at the moment,

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:37 am

Dikikeys wrote:One thing I'd like to see on ALL arrangers' Endings is the ability for the arranger to 'hold' the final notes for as long as you hold the chord recognition.

Roland don't have this, it's a huge issue unless you edit the style (and it never fixes it, as the ending 'hold' depends a lot on the song).

This and many other things, basically we have had the same style engine for over a decade now.... Witouth any real advancement and innovation.. The only company that is innovating yet slowly in this departemnt seems to be Ketron...

advid · Post by **advid** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:27 am

...why don't Korgs even have a 'slowdown' ending that Yamaha (and others) use..

.press ending twice for slower ending... would help sometimes...

worth · Post by **worth** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:41 am

What do you mean ? It does have a slow down function and has had since the pa1x which I still own .

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:20 pm

Worth wrote:What do you mean ? It does have a slow down function and has had since the pa1x which I still own

+1
Yep! Always been there since the Korg i-series arrangers - "Accelerando/Ritardando" see pages 739-741 in PA4X E4 manual

Cheers

advid · Post by **advid** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:26 pm

.I'm using a PA900...nothing in my manual about 'slowing' down the ending.....only repeating/looping...

How do you do it...?

Dikikeys · Post by **Dikikeys** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:45 pm

How I envision the feature would be from the chord recognition area...

Styles could have a sustain 'on' on the last notes, but no 'off'. The 'off' could come from lifting ALL notes off the chord recognition area.

Alternatively, the sustain from the chord recognition Part could be used to 'hold' the final chord out as long as you want (or the sounds decay for).

It would not be THAT hard to develop.

I know I go on and on about stuff like this, but personally, I think they are the things that can move the arranger ahead. The same style engine with better sounds only seems more obviously dated. I truly believe that little things like this, even on the same sounds we already have, make for a truly more MUSICAL experience.

Velocity offsetting style Parts is another. Fill-to-same little drum 'pickups' is another. Splash or crash cymbals (and maybe a bass 'pop') extra notes in response to a fff chord recognition area hit is another. More fills (for smoother transitions) and more break/fills is another.

The list goes on and on for things that would have MUSICAL consequences, not just sonic ones. But the state of the arranger engine itself (with the exception of the Guitar Modes) has had little innovation in ten years or more.

Maybe it's time to quit whining about sample streaming, and ask for some stuff that would actually make a difference to the responsiveness of the arranger Parts to what WE play? I would happily trade away a decade of sound improvements for some really significant improvements to the basic arranger engine.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:57 am

advid wrote:New post reply... Slowing Down Endings Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
.I'm using a PA900...nothing in my manual about 'slowing' down the ending.....only repeating/looping...

How do you do it...?

See pages 247 and 254 in your PA900 manual for Accelerando/ritardando configuration and set-up

Diki wrote:Styles could have a sustain 'on' on the last notes

I'm still curious...
Styles have several active sounds - so how would you control/select the sound(s) you want to sustain?
OK, let's say you want to sustain strings at the end of an "ENDING" - strings could be ACC4 in that style - how do you instantly "select" ACC4 for sustain during the ENDING?
Even if you could, some may want to sustain ACC2 at the end, or ACC2 and ACC4. Also, that would be different for every style.
From a logical perspective this would be a nightmare - a generic/global configuration would not suit as we all have different views and needs.
How would Korg even start to develop this one?

Diki wrote: I would happily trade away a decade of sound improvements for some really significant improvements to the basic arranger engine.

+1

Cheers

Pete

Dikikeys · Post by **Dikikeys** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:45 pm

Every ending, unless written to end rhythmically, has a last note that sustains. Usually, the bass and whatever is chording at the time (Brass, strings, piano, guitar etc.).

I simply envision that whatever is sustaining has no 'note off' until the keyboard chord is released. The more complicated system would involve turning the note offs of whatever you are playing into a sustain release command for the Ending sequence.

A simpler version could simply impose the sustain pedal you are actually using into sustain commands on the arranger Parts.

Both would work. The latter might be the easier to implement.

A simple 'sustain last arranger chord' command could be part of the style data, or it could be a Performance or Songbook choice. Maybe even an EC5 option.

A REALLY useful option would be a sampled drum 'flourish' that would sound when the sustain was released. The current voice engine allows release samples, doesn't it? A silent sound with the flourish on the release shouldn't be that tough to program.

There's one other option that MIGHT work... a muted tempo track enabled by a switch, pedal etc.. Enable the track, and a RADICAL tempo drop when the last note sounds could hold the final chord almost indefinitely (definitely as long as might musically be needed), and then hitting STOP would make it stop sounding.

This is a musical need that has not been addressed for ages. It strikes me that it isn't any tougher than Guitar Mode, for instance!

Preset ritardando's aren't really the answer. For one thing, each song requires a different degree of ritardando at different points in the ending. So a global amount isn't the solution. And, most of the time, the ending works fine except for the final chord being either too short or occasionally too long.

I think any of the above solutions could be implemented without a radical change to the style engine. Mind you, a radical change is rather overdue, don't you think?