Korg on top of the(ir) game?

[SanderXpander]

I honestly don't know if it would be worth it to them to do such a massive OS overhaul. 64 bit, greatly revised sample editing, finally unifying the EXi and HD1 banks/formats, these would all require Korg to drop/rewrite large parts of their code. If you look at the evolution from Oasys to Kronos (with no disrespect to some of the great improvements made) I just don't think they are ever going to take that path. But I'm not a programmer, perhaps with a quicker CPU they can put a slicker "shell" over the current OS.

[GregC]

They did exactly the right thing all these years: update content and be successful with the same synth, becoming and staying the benchmark for all others up to now.

But I agree with Greg: January 2017 would be the perfect moment to announce a real successor and keep the clear allround synth overall conceptual dominance - over anything Yamaha, Roland, Kurzweil and Nord have to offer - for more years to come.

The three key things will be
- more DAW integration and
- ease of use (sample management etc.) and
- quality and amount of gig ready and/or recording ready presets through different genres

It will not be convincing just to deliver the next hardware generation.

I also hope such a new key will be backward compatible with the kronos...

I would like that , assuming it does not limit a new w/s.

For example, I am imagining they could further develop the sound engines.

Possibly have an ' old factory preload ' for those of us who need the compatibility.

Or roughly keep the current bank structure as is while adding new banks

[GregC]

I honestly don't know if it would be worth it to them to do such a massive OS overhaul. 64 bit, greatly revised sample editing, finally unifying the EXi and HD1 banks/formats, these would all require Korg to drop/rewrite large parts of their code. If you look at the evolution from Oasys to Kronos (with no disrespect to some of the great improvements made) I just don't think they are ever going to take that path. But I'm not a programmer, perhaps with a quicker CPU they can put a slicker "shell" over the current OS.

You know more than I about coding. Philosophically, I like the idea of starting with a blank piece of paper without the limits of 32 bit.

[fcoulter]

Philosophically, I like the idea of starting with a blank piece of paper without the limits of 32 bit.

In the Vernor Vinge novel (strongly recommended) A Deepness in the Sky, one of the main characters has the job description of software archeologist. The novel is set tens of thousands of years in the future, and system clocks are still counting from the 0 moment of DOS clocks. Basically, each layer of software is written on top of the previous layer, so you can find interesting possibilities when you dig down through the layers.

Starting with a blank piece of paper is incredibly expensive. It's much easier to just add to existing code.

My wife's Ph.D. dissertation was written in C, but a lot of the mathematical libraries were translated from Fortran using F2C and then left alone. (Fortran is far older than C.) The idea is "if it works, don't fix it."

[Ksynth]

Korg's problem re code:

It would seem that unless they embrace 64 bit code we are going to be stuck in the 32 limits.

I for one think that they will need to update their code to 64 bit. It just does not make sense if they want to keep on top with adding more engines to the Kronos type workstation, and other features.

Ask Microsoft to help convert if necessary. They have software that can assist.

This is not an impossible task.

[GregC]

Philosophically, I like the idea of starting with a blank piece of paper without the limits of 32 bit.

Starting with a blank piece of paper is incredibly expensive. It's much easier to just add to existing code.

."

the most striking technology improvement is the ' disruptive ' type, a seeming break from the past. We can use some older Apple products as examples. And even those ' borrowed ' some good ideas elsewhere.

The Oasys might be an example of a mostly creative, open approach. Even that had some legacy with the Oasys sound card.

[GregC]

Korg's problem re code:

It would seem that unless they embrace 64 bit code we are going to be stuck in the 32 limits.

I for one think that they will need to update their code to 64 bit. It just does not make sense if they want to keep on top with adding more engines to the Kronos type workstation, and other features.

Ask Microsoft to help convert if necessary. They have software that can assist.

This is not an impossible task.

Thats good to know. I think we sense ' incremental ' would be easier and cheaper. I hope Korg does not take the safest route when they develop a new W/s.

In a perfect world, of unlimited funds and talent, and ease of assembly, they could conceivably do ' both '

[SanderXpander]

Not to mention Linux.

[Ksynth]

No wuckin furries

[DennyC]

Honestly, Ksynth, why do you have to try and be so coy in bringing political pandering into the forum. I love to read this forum especially for the break from the political dung that is so pervasive in the media. You have a lot of posts and should know better than trying a stunt like this. Please keep your posts relevant to music... as the "non subtle" reference to your profile is offensive to me. Obviously, if I recognized it for what it is, it is not that clever.

thanks, Denny C

[fcoulter]

I want to put this link into my Profile.

http://video.gq.com/watch/176-reasons-d ... -president

I wouldn't recommend it. Unless you want me to start spamming Gary Johnson advertisements. Then will come Jill Stein ads from other members.

And all the non-United States citizens on this board will have proof that Americans are crazy.

[GregC]

And all the non-United States citizens on this board will have proof that Americans are crazy.

Thats funny. Lets qualify to certain folks

all is good here in Kronos world

[Bachus]

Korg's problem re code:

It would seem that unless they embrace 64 bit code we are going to be stuck in the 32 limits.

I for one think that they will need to update their code to 64 bit. It just does not make sense if they want to keep on top with adding more engines to the Kronos type workstation, and other features.

Ask Microsoft to help convert if necessary. They have software that can assist.

This is not an impossible task.

You can run 32 programming in a 64 bit linux version... So to break the memmory limits they only need to upgrade the linux version...

I would also upgrade the host.. But they dont have to upgrade the engines and such...since we have a Linux base, it might actually be much less complicated then expected...

[GregC]

Korg's problem re code:

It would seem that unless they embrace 64 bit code we are going to be stuck in the 32 limits.

I for one think that they will need to update their code to 64 bit. It just does not make sense if they want to keep on top with adding more engines to the Kronos type workstation, and other features.

Ask Microsoft to help convert if necessary. They have software that can assist.

This is not an impossible task.

You can run 32 programming in a 64 bit linux version... So to break the memmory limits they only need to upgrade the linux version...

I would also upgrade the host.. But they dont have to upgrade the engines and such...since we have a Linux base, it might actually be much less complicated then expected...

I like what you are saying but think Korg has immense talent to further develop the sound engines.

You would have to notice that Keyscape also has impressive quality. Assuming that is a fair benchmark.

For $4000, I want spec, great ( new) sound and/or other important features.

[amit]

I'll just speak off for kronos/Workstation here.

Like any business,unless KORG sees some decent (Return of investment) from
64 Bit code-base, I don't see them re-building their current infrastructure
to port to 64 bit.
See their previous workstations from last 20 years,you'd find a lot of similarities
and functionality that makes their code-base infrastructure.

The profitability/ROI comes from code re-use in devices in the generations to come.

Like GregC Mentioned, Its a specialized device, thus the development cost is usually much
higher than a generic code i.e. low level code (assembler, cpu extentions/optimizations) along with high level code (c/c++ ..)

Secondly the Market of the product itself is Specialized/Niche too (Musicians), that also adds a lot to
the ROI equation, with a limited user base you have to keep the product cost effective too, and rake in profits to
survive, let alone innovate.


Having Said that, Here's something to ponder

What if it was 64 bit Already?

1. What difference Would it have made to the Sound? likely None?.
2. Other than the Piano and HD-1 Engines, what else would it have improved for a musician? not much, unless nit-picking.

3: What if it did come with 64 Gig Ram and 1TB SSD? ($$$, let's keep costing for a bit later)

3.1: How fast does your kronos loads now? 1.something minutes right? let's be liberal and rate it at 3GB /1 minute.
so its What : 8GB / 2.67 minutes , but since we have 64GB Ram at our disposal why not use it, so here's the number : 64 GB / 21.33 minutes yay!.
but that is impractical number so lets settle down to 16 GB limit i.e 16 GB / 5.35 Mins.
That's 5 times eternity, the Current Kronos load time feels at times. (you can surely translate it to some lost customers)

3.2: Sure We can improve load times with SSD to SATA6, but that would also need a new motherboard,
FSB and all hardware supporting that ($$$)

3.3: Now with Faster CPU/RAM/FSB etc you'd consume more power ($$), so better power-supply,
more power means more heat.. more heat will need active cooling (noise and $$).. and on and on..

3.4 So even if this all were to be technically feasible (real-time efficieny), Yet Some Compromise has/had to be made to make it economically viable for Users.

3.5 Now Add to that developement Cost of the 64 bit OS, and all their engines (9 in kronos) and effects.
3.6: I don't know for sure if Kronos uses some DSP Acceleration Chips or not, but if they do that does add another layer of complexity.

This all for what? perhaps at best 14 GB of additional sample memory (volatile),
with load times that just might not be feasible for a lot of performance/live musicians and Costing Considerably Higher.

Sorry, but the numbers (ROI) just don't look good to me. Especially as opposed to having 2 kronos Workstations and doubling the polyphony.

What instead I would like to see is perhaps Korg Doing a Sound Module based Off their Sample based engine (HD1), getting it done 64bit with a big SSD
and plenty of RAM. That Could be a Killer product (that also doubles the polyphony being a separate device), would test the waters and Could
decide for their next generations for Workstations. But that's just me

So the main Question: Is Korg on top of the(ir) game?
for me: Yes, They Made the Right Compromises to bring us the Kronos as it is Today, they upgraded it (kronos2) to max they could, yet keeping costs in check.

However I'd expect to see something from them that is as good in its own when the time comes.

They sure would have some surprises up their sleeve.