I've had my Kronos for about 9 months now and have found the thing so damn intimidating, I've barely looked under the hood. Every time I do, I am baffled and stressed! So I've tended to stay away from making my own sounds from scratch because I never get anywhere near where I want to get with it. I mostly just use presets. I can fiddle with the piano engine ok - at least that makes sense to me.
So, a while back I asked for some advice in creating something close to the Derek Sherinian Monster Lead sound from the Trinity. I received some generous advice from a couple of guys, but I have just got nowhere. This thing just feels so unintuitive, I can't connect with it. I have an old Korg T1 and I know that thing inside and out - finding samples, shaping them, filtering them. Easy. But on the Kronos I'm so lost in the infinite number of parameters and routing options. I'm starting to think I made a mistake in getting this thing. I find myself stressed to the point of switching the thing off instead of making music. And I'm not a fool with tech stuff, I can get right into Windows, Android and Mac. I just don't know what's going on with this thing.
I tried to make the Monster Lead patch using two oscillators: One Saw, One Pulse - as suggested to me here on the forum. I used an initialised patch and I couldn't even select the damn HD1 engine! I can't even bring it up. All I can get is Tonewheel organs, Strings, Pianos, various analog synths. No HD1. I tried to do it with the Polysix engine, still getting nowhere... I wanted to find something that's like my old T1, just so I can have a sense of accomplishment about something besides just tweaking pianos. Nothing doing.
Is there any way to learn this thing from first principles - starting with nothing and building up sounds? Am I too stupid for this thing? Maybe I should just quit while I'm behind and just get a digital piano...
Has anyone else ever felt like this with their Kronos? Did you get past it? If so, how?
Any suggestions or inspiration would be welcome...
Kronos so complex, it makes me feel like an idiot...
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
Kronos so complex, it makes me feel like an idiot...
Kronos 2 88, Korg T1, Mesa Boogie Triaxis/2:90, TC G-major II.
Breathe.
Don't try to tackle it all at once.
If I could offer some basic structure in terms of how to think of things and approach things......
Starting in program mode, the 9 engines are each designed to work like the specific things they are trying to mimic. So familiarities with the originals help a lot. One of my first synths was a polysix, so I find that engine familiar and intuitive, but sometimes need to go to the AL-1 for additional functionality. I never had a DX7 or did much FM programming, so I don't touch MOD7 much. The piano, EP, and organ engines are pretty straight forward. MS20 can be a little confusion if you've never had your hands on one. As for HD1, the engine itself is just like the whole triton series has been for decades. I don't like the sample file management, but with repetition I've learned to work with it. Pick an engine that seems more intuitive to you and play around with it until you know it like you knew your trinity.
That's the beginning. The effect is and I/O routing is pretty straightforward and works the same way in every mode, so if you learn it in program mode, you've learned it in the other modes. Stay away from Karma until you've mastered everything else, just turn it off.
With a little practice, you'll learn to ignore a lot of the tabs that you never use - you may forget that they're even there.
Crawl. Walk. Run.
Don't try to tackle it all at once.
If I could offer some basic structure in terms of how to think of things and approach things......
Starting in program mode, the 9 engines are each designed to work like the specific things they are trying to mimic. So familiarities with the originals help a lot. One of my first synths was a polysix, so I find that engine familiar and intuitive, but sometimes need to go to the AL-1 for additional functionality. I never had a DX7 or did much FM programming, so I don't touch MOD7 much. The piano, EP, and organ engines are pretty straight forward. MS20 can be a little confusion if you've never had your hands on one. As for HD1, the engine itself is just like the whole triton series has been for decades. I don't like the sample file management, but with repetition I've learned to work with it. Pick an engine that seems more intuitive to you and play around with it until you know it like you knew your trinity.
That's the beginning. The effect is and I/O routing is pretty straightforward and works the same way in every mode, so if you learn it in program mode, you've learned it in the other modes. Stay away from Karma until you've mastered everything else, just turn it off.
With a little practice, you'll learn to ignore a lot of the tabs that you never use - you may forget that they're even there.
Crawl. Walk. Run.
Man, I'm sorry you're feeling this way. I can empathize, too, because it was a steep learning curve for me also. I hope you can get over the hump, because once you get to a certain point, the depth and complexity become liberating rather than overwhelming and paralyzing.
The thing about HD-1 -- you have to be in the right type of program bank. Program banks come in 2 varieties, HD-1 and everything else. HD-1 is probably most like your T1, so you're on the right track wanting to start there. In Global mode, you can see which banks are which type, and can also change them so you have more HD-1 banks (if that's what you want). Go to Global -> Basic -> page menu button (the arrow in the top right) -> Set Program Bank Type.
I think that the Operations Guide is a good starting point for walking through things step by step. The "Playing and editing Programs" section is just about 30 pages and covers a lot of good information. You can skip the parts that you don't care about and come back to them later if you want. It includes lots of information to get you started with editing your own HD-1 programs.
The thing about HD-1 -- you have to be in the right type of program bank. Program banks come in 2 varieties, HD-1 and everything else. HD-1 is probably most like your T1, so you're on the right track wanting to start there. In Global mode, you can see which banks are which type, and can also change them so you have more HD-1 banks (if that's what you want). Go to Global -> Basic -> page menu button (the arrow in the top right) -> Set Program Bank Type.
I think that the Operations Guide is a good starting point for walking through things step by step. The "Playing and editing Programs" section is just about 30 pages and covers a lot of good information. You can skip the parts that you don't care about and come back to them later if you want. It includes lots of information to get you started with editing your own HD-1 programs.
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psionic311
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1046
- Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:57 am
- Location: Orlando, Florida USA
+1voxg wrote:The thing about HD-1 -- you have to be in the right type of program bank. Program banks come in 2 varieties, HD-1 and everything else. HD-1 is probably most like your T1, so you're on the right track wanting to start there. In Global mode, you can see which banks are which type, and can also change them so you have more HD-1 banks (if that's what you want). Go to Global -> Basic -> page menu button (the arrow in the top right) -> Set Program Bank Type.
I think one of the biggest mistakes is to try to use everything on the Kronos. This is a very advanced machine. Okay if you're someone like Jordan Rudess but for the average guy it's all too much. I originally bought the Kronos for CX-3, the original CX-3 no longer being available. After five years I find myself mostly using EP-1, CX-3, Sequencer mode, some HD1 (for the wave sequencing), and some Polysix (for the strings). Don't really need any of the rest. So you don't need to feel like an idiot if you don't use everything.
Flashback! I popped in here before I bought and everyone warned me off for a first synth stating how complex it would be but I did not listen and was just like you! Listen to these guys they know what they are talking about. I picked on engine and worked on it. I still have problems but they are fewer and farther between.
I felt that way and even spent time ignoring Kronos for lack of inspiration over fustration with all the ins and outs.
Between the forum and youtube videos, following random info and questions, i was filled in to the point of getting over the hill. I still don't use Kronos to its potential but now i can get through random rumaging with little confusion. Now i am comfortable with the Parameter guide compared to starting with the parameter guide and working things out from there. It's hard to get help for a project from the parmeter guide when all the things pertaining to the project are spread out over far flung areas of parameter guide.
I ignored routing for a long time until i did the Vocoder effect routing. That gave me a new perspective and then i got interested in kronos routing related youtube videos. After figuring out vocoder routing and 2 youtube videos, i was good to go for figuring other things out on my own.
I also tried taking an initialized program and making my own sound from scratch, but i couldn't ever get the release to apply on an initialized program.
So i copy over a preset program and reassign it's OSC and parameters which then gives me responsive release and other parameters.
Thats what i would do with the lead program/s, i would find a roughly similar preset program and copy it to the intialized slot and then begin to shape the sound or even turn all the parameter settings to 0 or some neutral setting that gives a good clean slate to listen from before designing my own.
I still haven't been able to get an initialized program to shape into something for me because i can't get the release to ring out past the rough sample state it comes as in an intialized program.
I always have to copy a preset program with release and every other parameter working, and then make my sound in the program template the preset was built on. I have tried to find ways to work with a raw intitialzed program and nothing except copying a preset has worked. It makes sense to do it that way anyway, because its easier to find a similar sound among the diverse range of presets and then go from there with ahead start. It helps the beginners anyway.
When i got my kronos, i was still planning to hold off on it and just get a yamaha digital piano to hold me over. I bought the digital piano and got home with it to find the top octave set of keys were damaged. I heard stuff rattling in the box too ,but didn't think guitar center would do that kind of business to me.
I took it back the next day and knew then i was unhappy and would be fooling myself to think i would be satisfied with whatever i got if did not just get the Kronos. I took the broken Yamaha back and credited the refund towards the order of Kronos2.
I would never get a digital piano to replace the kronos even though i tried one to hold me over until i stopped being stingy with myself.
How will a digital piano do any better than turning on kronos, pressing Program or Combi mode buttons and scrolling through so many decent sounds while smooth sound transition (SST) makes scrolling even better?
Just keep your use of Kronos simple and ignore the rest until you get over the fustration.
Boredom eventually came to rescue me from fustration. I ended digging into Kronos again and made little steps forward. There comes a point if you take the time, a point where it all comes together where your past experience with other Korgs make a difference. It was easier for me coming from years of experience with Triton extreme.
I don't have any pressing gig agendas, i got Kronos to have a good workstation to learn and help me grow my musicianship. Even if all i do is play to feel better, relieve boredom and eventually learn an amazing workstation, its worth it. I plan to have kronos for a long time. Keeping at it to be able to access what i need even though it has more than i may ever need. I never know though, i get around and may play with people who call up ideas that i just may be able to pluck out of Kronos. Left USA to Mexico now and getting settled in here and eventually meet local musicians. Would love to get kronos to Africa eventually where i have friends in the local music and film industry.
I have time to spare, learn more how to use it and it will be worth it if i evetually get kronos to the places i want to take it.
Between the forum and youtube videos, following random info and questions, i was filled in to the point of getting over the hill. I still don't use Kronos to its potential but now i can get through random rumaging with little confusion. Now i am comfortable with the Parameter guide compared to starting with the parameter guide and working things out from there. It's hard to get help for a project from the parmeter guide when all the things pertaining to the project are spread out over far flung areas of parameter guide.
I ignored routing for a long time until i did the Vocoder effect routing. That gave me a new perspective and then i got interested in kronos routing related youtube videos. After figuring out vocoder routing and 2 youtube videos, i was good to go for figuring other things out on my own.
I also tried taking an initialized program and making my own sound from scratch, but i couldn't ever get the release to apply on an initialized program.
So i copy over a preset program and reassign it's OSC and parameters which then gives me responsive release and other parameters.
Thats what i would do with the lead program/s, i would find a roughly similar preset program and copy it to the intialized slot and then begin to shape the sound or even turn all the parameter settings to 0 or some neutral setting that gives a good clean slate to listen from before designing my own.
I still haven't been able to get an initialized program to shape into something for me because i can't get the release to ring out past the rough sample state it comes as in an intialized program.
I always have to copy a preset program with release and every other parameter working, and then make my sound in the program template the preset was built on. I have tried to find ways to work with a raw intitialzed program and nothing except copying a preset has worked. It makes sense to do it that way anyway, because its easier to find a similar sound among the diverse range of presets and then go from there with ahead start. It helps the beginners anyway.
When i got my kronos, i was still planning to hold off on it and just get a yamaha digital piano to hold me over. I bought the digital piano and got home with it to find the top octave set of keys were damaged. I heard stuff rattling in the box too ,but didn't think guitar center would do that kind of business to me.
I took it back the next day and knew then i was unhappy and would be fooling myself to think i would be satisfied with whatever i got if did not just get the Kronos. I took the broken Yamaha back and credited the refund towards the order of Kronos2.
I would never get a digital piano to replace the kronos even though i tried one to hold me over until i stopped being stingy with myself.
How will a digital piano do any better than turning on kronos, pressing Program or Combi mode buttons and scrolling through so many decent sounds while smooth sound transition (SST) makes scrolling even better?
Just keep your use of Kronos simple and ignore the rest until you get over the fustration.
Boredom eventually came to rescue me from fustration. I ended digging into Kronos again and made little steps forward. There comes a point if you take the time, a point where it all comes together where your past experience with other Korgs make a difference. It was easier for me coming from years of experience with Triton extreme.
I don't have any pressing gig agendas, i got Kronos to have a good workstation to learn and help me grow my musicianship. Even if all i do is play to feel better, relieve boredom and eventually learn an amazing workstation, its worth it. I plan to have kronos for a long time. Keeping at it to be able to access what i need even though it has more than i may ever need. I never know though, i get around and may play with people who call up ideas that i just may be able to pluck out of Kronos. Left USA to Mexico now and getting settled in here and eventually meet local musicians. Would love to get kronos to Africa eventually where i have friends in the local music and film industry.
I have time to spare, learn more how to use it and it will be worth it if i evetually get kronos to the places i want to take it.
Thanks for your thoughts, guys! It was encouraging to read. I guess I need to take a deep breath and explore it with fresh eyes - focus on simpler tasks involving modifying sounds rather than starting from a blank canvas.
I had no idea I couldn't access HD1 from the initialized patch I was using! That was very confusing! Thanks for the heads up on that. It makes no sense to me why it would work like that, but I'm glad to know there's an explanation.
Maybe there is still hope...
I had no idea I couldn't access HD1 from the initialized patch I was using! That was very confusing! Thanks for the heads up on that. It makes no sense to me why it would work like that, but I'm glad to know there's an explanation.
Maybe there is still hope...
Kronos 2 88, Korg T1, Mesa Boogie Triaxis/2:90, TC G-major II.
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media-igor
- Senior Member
- Posts: 314
- Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 6:57 am
If you speak English, is showing little perseverance - you will be able to understand the basics of working with the KRONOS. For example, I do not know English, but nevertheless still managed to find out some ways. When you begin to understand something - it does not seem too difficult.
Council. If you want to make your desired sound - not necessarily to start from scratch! It is better to take from presets and try to change it. At the same time you understand the purpose of the different regulators.
Use this forum. See the lessons on YouTube.
Council. If you want to make your desired sound - not necessarily to start from scratch! It is better to take from presets and try to change it. At the same time you understand the purpose of the different regulators.
Use this forum. See the lessons on YouTube.
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Pouyakhoshgoo
- Full Member
- Posts: 184
- Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:10 am
- Location: Sydney
I feel the same mate
Got my K 2 years ago and haven't done anything with it!
To be honest i lost my passion, i used to make at leadt 6 or 7 nice tracks in a year with my other instruments, but not even a single measure with this beast.
Of course its not Kronos's fault, but its my lack of knowledge of synthesis.
I know people here are very nice and they are always there to guide you, the thing about me is that I don't even know where to start and what to ask!!!
Believe it or not every day when i wake up and i see my K in the room i feel so guilty!!!!
Feeling so down...
(((
Got my K 2 years ago and haven't done anything with it!
To be honest i lost my passion, i used to make at leadt 6 or 7 nice tracks in a year with my other instruments, but not even a single measure with this beast.
Of course its not Kronos's fault, but its my lack of knowledge of synthesis.
I know people here are very nice and they are always there to guide you, the thing about me is that I don't even know where to start and what to ask!!!
Believe it or not every day when i wake up and i see my K in the room i feel so guilty!!!!
Feeling so down...
(((Pouya-khoshgoo
I know how you feel mate, I've had my 2 for about two months now. needs a 1 to 1 training course!ando727 wrote:Thanks for your thoughts, guys! It was encouraging to read. I guess I need to take a deep breath and explore it with fresh eyes - focus on simpler tasks involving modifying sounds rather than starting from a blank canvas.
I had no idea I couldn't access HD1 from the initialized patch I was using! That was very confusing! Thanks for the heads up on that. It makes no sense to me why it would work like that, but I'm glad to know there's an explanation.
Maybe there is still hope...
It really does! I can't help but feel that Korg has a bit of work to do in the user interface side of things. It's a soup of menus and options. I do know how to use a synthesiser - I've never been a presets guy, I've always tweaked my sounds. I can also use DAWs like Cubase, Protools etc. I use synth plugins, MIDI, but the Kronos is something completely different! I'm all at sea. Right now, I wish I had a Nord Stage 88 hooked up to my Mac. At least then I could make music! Then again, the Nord action is total rubbish...emlclcy wrote:I know how you feel mate, I've had my 2 for about two months now. needs a 1 to 1 training course!ando727 wrote:Thanks for your thoughts, guys! It was encouraging to read. I guess I need to take a deep breath and explore it with fresh eyes - focus on simpler tasks involving modifying sounds rather than starting from a blank canvas.
I had no idea I couldn't access HD1 from the initialized patch I was using! That was very confusing! Thanks for the heads up on that. It makes no sense to me why it would work like that, but I'm glad to know there's an explanation.
Maybe there is still hope...
Sad thing is that there was a Kronos workshop in my city just before I bought mine, so I missed it. God, I wish I had caught that workshop!
I'll keep trying, but I've got a lot on my plate. I wish it wasn't so damn time-consuming and complicated to get up to speed with this thing!
Kronos 2 88, Korg T1, Mesa Boogie Triaxis/2:90, TC G-major II.
Yeah, same. I used to be able to just churn out a track in no time with older, simpler gear. Now I spend an hour just trying to set something up - after that long, the inspiration is gone...Pouyakhoshgoo wrote:I feel the same mate
Got my K 2 years ago and haven't done anything with it!
To be honest i lost my passion, i used to make at leadt 6 or 7 nice tracks in a year with my other instruments, but not even a single measure with this beast.
Of course its not Kronos's fault, but its my lack of knowledge of synthesis.
I know people here are very nice and they are always there to guide you, the thing about me is that I don't even know where to start and what to ask!!!
Believe it or not every day when i wake up and i see my K in the room i feel so guilty!!!!
Feeling so down...
Kronos 2 88, Korg T1, Mesa Boogie Triaxis/2:90, TC G-major II.
