Speaker Setup for Kronos in a Home Studio

[RlaRed]

I have a home studio. I have my computer at a desk and I have 2 M-Audio BX5a moniors on each side of the desk. The desk is in a corner so the monitors kind of point towards the center of the room. My Kronos is to the right of it along the wall, currently not hooked up to monitor speakers.

My choices are to either run the Kronos through the existing monitor speakers (where I will not be sitting in the middle of the stereo field anymore, but off past the right channel) or to pony up for a second set of monitors specifically for the Kronos. I have about $500 of rewards at Musicians Friend, so I am debating on what to use it on (I also need a good microphone, a second keyboard stand, some cables, etc etc).

I am curious what other people have done in the similar situation, and if they get used to not being in the center of the stereo field or if it bothers them? Most pictures I've seen of studios with keyboards has the monitors with the computer and the keyboard off to the side.

[Bertotti]

I tired using some KRK Rokkit 5 but hated the lack of lower end. Now if I am not bothering anyone I use QSCK10 at home or more offend some DT880 pro 250ohm headphones. To me they both sound great with the nod going to the headphones.

[RlaRed]

Thanks but the question was about your speaker placement and if you have separate monitors for the Korg. I also have headphones though but I do like to play the glorious Kronos on my monitors when possible since it sounds better.

[pedro5]

This is a huge subject and has many possibillities as to what is "right" or not.
There are certain rules that can be applied to enhance sound within a room,but it depends on the expected end result.
Doing some research….google can find many references,written or video…which can be informative and/or sometimes overwhelming,but being aware of some of the basics can really help,initially.

As for keyboard placement,I prefer to have them in between the monitors by equal distances…i.e. in the centre,to provide left & right balance during playing.
I've kept the monitors away from the room corner and rear wall as much as possible mainly to help control the low frequencies etc.
Also,my computer,daw,is on another table, at a right angle to the keyboards,with a pair of other monitors used for mixing etc.

Most situations will be a compromise with wherever the set up is to be made.(room size,shape etc).
Some rooms can be "tuned" to accommodate any discrepencies,which can be simple,basic treatment,but this can become an increased expense for home studio users with problematic rooms,especially for vocal or live acoustic recording.
Trial & error with various tests can be beneficial,but not much fun if a satisfactory solution can not be found.

As said,although there are some basic rules that may improve the set up…..it is what's "right" for the user that really matters,whatever anyone else says…

Seriously though,hopefully,other members will provide you with their own set up preference that may help.

Please keep us informed with your progress.

Best Wishes.

[DeltaJockey]

This is an issue that I have struggled with for a long time.....Studio Ergonomics, I like to call it.

I have fairly regularly re positioned things trying to find the best compromise.
It is absolutely essential to me that I'm playing the instrument between the speakers, as the stereo landscape is just as as important to me as the sound itself.
Though an expansion on the issue you face, for me the biggest issue has been accommodating several keyboards in active duty, and having them all between the speakers....not possible!

I have a "main" setup which includes my KronosX 88, sitting between my best monitors, with the DAW computer and pc monitor behind the keyboard. I treat this as a single "unit" which I never separate. It's just a question of where in the room I position it. My studio is a small bedroom, specifically set up with only keyboard gear.
I have modified a dual tier Z frame keyboard stand to accommodate the monitors permanently attached each side and sound isolated from the floor and supporting shelf, and the second tier as the computer shelf, so the whole unit will move as one.
Presently it's in a corner, but away from the wall as best I can, given the space limitation. Also, I only have front bass port monitors because of the limitation in not being able to position too far from the walls.

As far as the other keyboards are concerned, as my KX88 is my main controller I have the other keyboards MIDI'd back to the Kronos, and all go through a mixer, that way I can play all synths withe my KX88 and sit between my main monitors....however, I've always been challenged by the ergonomics because I sometimes want to just switch on one of the other synths, without firing up my main rig. So I have some backup smaller monitors either side of these synths for that.

I have come to terms with the fact that my musical and audio requirements are constantly changing, depending on what I'm working on, so no one setup stays permanent, and so having gear easily pulled in an out of a working position seems to be the best compromise for me, along with unfortunately requiring a bit of duplication in gear, though that is not a luxury available to everyone.

That's basically my experience on things, maybe not quite your situation, but I do empathize with this common general issue we all have with placing our gear.
I probably could get used to hearing the sound to one side, but only for performance, it just wouldn't work for composing or mastering. So my advice there is, that if you do need to hear the stereo field, work out some way of setting up your desk, or stand with the monitors either side. For some, an alternative may be to use a cheaper small controller keyboard on the desk, midi'd to the Kronos, if space is a problem.

It really gets down to 2 choices! As you already realize, either you find a way to position your Kronos between the monitors, or you get a second set of monitors

[GregC]

I have a home studio. I have my computer at a desk and I have 2 M-Audio BX5a moniors on each side of the desk. The desk is in a corner so the monitors kind of point towards the center of the room. My Kronos is to the right of it along the wall, currently not hooked up to monitor speakers.

My choices are to either run the Kronos through the existing monitor speakers (where I will not be sitting in the middle of the stereo field anymore, but off past the right channel) or to pony up for a second set of monitors specifically for the Kronos. I have about $500 of rewards at Musicians Friend, so I am debating on what to use it on (I also need a good microphone, a second keyboard stand, some cables, etc etc).

I am curious what other people have done in the similar situation, and if they get used to not being in the center of the stereo field or if it bothers them? Most pictures I've seen of studios with keyboards has the monitors with the computer and the keyboard off to the side.

I think your Kronos needs the best set of studio monitors for home studio. Spending $1000 on a quality set is not unusual. I have Event 8's which are outstanding.

[RlaRed]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. It seems I am not the only one in this situation!

I will most likely end up getting a second pair of monitors. I thought maybe the feedback would be that people get used to having the keyboard off to the side easily but that's not the case!

The bright side is that I'll have a lot of flexibility in the future regarding placement of the Kronos.

[BobTheDog]

I ended up getting a second set for my Kronos which is offset from my main monitors which are Genelecs.

I went for the cheap option and got some M-Audio BX5s which are cheap as chips but don't sound too bad.

Instead of connecting them directly to the Kronos they are connected to my audio interface via a patch-bay so I can route audio from anywhere else to them as well, useful if you are using the Kronos to control anything else or recording into a DAW as you can monitor everything from the playing position.

Really I would like a set of monitors per keyboard but it's a bit impractical!

[psionic311]

A simple suggestion in the meantime -- place your speakers so that the Kronos is in the center of the stereo field.

The computer audio can be such that one speaker is "behind" and the other "in front", which is sufficient for Netflix, youtube, etc...

Kronos first, computer audio 2nd priority.

[Bertotti]

RiaRed let me clarify and elaborate. First as to monitors mine suck for Kronos if they didn't I would use them but the were horrible and I wanted something good For other uses so in came the QSC K10 an odd choice for indoor on the Kronos perhaps but I like the sound they give me where I am at.

The room I am in is large but full, a corner of my living room. My coroner has two book shelves one on each wall right to the corner and the Kronos sit diagonal facing the with my back to the room not QSC are on stands alone one either wall which puts them a bit behind me by about 7feet each and directed towards me but not directly to the corner. It gives me good sound and fills the whole room. Probably not so good for initial mixing of any kind but that is where Inwill use my headphones but for additional tweaking it's good. I am no pro so this is just what I have and use in my little corner.

[19naia]

I have a question. My monitors stay at 0dB volume on the back panel. Same with the LF and HF knob setting on the monitors. I do the sound adjust from kronos, EQ and all.
It works great for room levels until i decide to turn kronos main volume to about 1:30 by the clock hour hand. Then it gets as loud as i need but some combis with timbre levels at 127, dim out in sound whenever i load up wide harmonies that carry high,mid,low notes and sustain. Its not kronos because headphones sound fine all the way up to full main volume.
I am guessing that i turn the monitors up above 0dB but they are hot as it is, so i hold back wondering if kronos can over-drive the monitors even more so if i turn the monitors up?
I have had them for almost a year and its my first time in a space to take the volume up. I want to take them out doors and turn up to the limit just before cracking up the sound , but i need to know any details on safe/best way to max the output between kronos and a set of krk rokit 5's...
Thanks

[psionic311]

I have a question. My monitors stay at 0dB volume on the back panel. Same with the LF and HF knob setting on the monitors. I do the sound adjust from kronos, EQ and all.
It works great for room levels until i decide to turn kronos main volume to about 1:30 by the clock hour hand. Then it gets as loud as i need but some combis with timbre levels at 127, dim out in sound whenever i load up wide harmonies that carry high,mid,low notes and sustain. Its not kronos because headphones sound fine all the way up to full main volume.
I am guessing that i turn the monitors up above 0dB but they are hot as it is, so i hold back wondering if kronos can over-drive the monitors even more so if i turn the monitors up?
I have had them for almost a year and its my first time in a space to take the volume up. I want to take them out doors and turn up to the limit just before cracking up the sound , but i need to know any details on safe/best way to max the output between kronos and a set of krk rokit 5's...
Thanks

I've found the Kronos output can be very strong, too strong sometimes. You must be very careful with overall volume (turn down those timbres in your combis from 127 to something less, like 100 or even less).

But the main culprit very likely is the low frequency content. Check your timbres and make sure the low end is at most at 3dB when you begin to crank up the overall volume to gig levels. Remember two crucial facts:
-- 6dB = twice the volume
-- low frequencies require *much* more energy to *seem* louder

In other words, you may need subwoofers to take on the low frequency content when you really want to crank the volume.

Also, by going direct from the Kronos to powered speakers, you are skipping any mixing and monitoring capabilities; you can't tell if your signal is too hot. You may need to invest in a mixer for proper gain staging.

An alternative solution is to go through your combis, and remove the low end content of any sound that doesn't need it. Cut the pads and the strings and even the pianos so that the low end EQ is -6dB on each of them. Only the bass instruments need to have that strong low end, and even then you should be gentle in your EQ boosts, probably not going past 9dB even with dedicated subwoofers. If you cut back the lows on everything, then you can crank up the mid and high frequencies (only if needed), and then the individual channel volumes, and you will be able to get a very loud and present sounding mix without distortion and the danger of damaging your audio components. Use your ears for balance, but avoid the temptation of too much bass.

[19naia]

I've found the Kronos output can be very strong, too strong sometimes. You must be very careful with overall volume (turn down those timbres in your combis from 127 to something less, like 100 or even less).

But the main culprit very likely is the low frequency content. Check your timbres and make sure the low end is at most at 3dB when you begin to crank up the overall volume to gig levels. Remember two crucial facts:
-- 6dB = twice the volume
-- low frequencies require *much* more energy to *seem* louder

In other words, you may need subwoofers to take on the low frequency content when you really want to crank the volume.

Also, by going direct from the Kronos to powered speakers, you are skipping any mixing and monitoring capabilities; you can't tell if your signal is too hot. You may need to invest in a mixer for proper gain staging.

An alternative solution is to go through your combis, and remove the low end content of any sound that doesn't need it. Cut the pads and the strings and even the pianos so that the low end EQ is -6dB on each of them. Only the bass instruments need to have that strong low end, and even then you should be gentle in your EQ boosts, probably not going past 9dB even with dedicated subwoofers. If you cut back the lows on everything, then you can crank up the mid and high frequencies (only if needed), and then the individual channel volumes, and you will be able to get a very loud and present sounding mix without distortion and the danger of damaging your audio components. Use your ears for balance, but avoid the temptation of too much bass.[/quote]

Its hard to tell if its the low or mid or highs because the sound cuts back when i load up on harmonies across the low to high notes. Then the combi under setlist EQ, has the lows turned down below 0 and the mids up to 5 in one band and the highs are just a bit above 0. Also EQ trim is down to 72. Yet this is where the sound drop is happening.

In combi mode without added EQ, the lows are present enough to make the sound like a muffled box but no sound drop there. I just prefer more present sound with higher mids and highs taking over the boxed in sound.

Anyway, i tried turning up all the knobs on the monitors, from 0bB center all the way to max. I barely got volume increase even with kronos turned to max main volume.
I think the speakers are self limiting. They seem to be safeguarding themselves by dropping sound down before cracking up. Also, i went back later when the monitors were cold and they easily took the sound i gave them until they heated up.
I think they are self limiting and cannot take the full flow of what kronos can give them. 1dB HF, 2dB LF and 6dB volume. Thats the max on the speakers.
I am glad they self preserve. I will go in and find a happy medium between timbre levels and kronos EQ like you said but i have a lot of EQ work on my hands already.
I see myself getting a classic keyboard amp again instead of subwoofers. I had roland kc 350 with my last workstation. Small but able to handle high input.
THANKS.

[pedro5]

Just my thoughts….probably won't be of any help,though...

Although some monitors can produce high volume levels,they are really meant to be used as nearfield "speakers",which basically means to be fairly close to the listener.

Perhaps a higher wattage speaker/amp combination or, possibly entering the realm of pa systems, would be better for a greater depth of volume….??

As a possible point of interest...I use a fairly low end (price wise) powered monitors with the volume set to around the 2 o'clock mark(two thirds its capacity) and the Kronos main volume at 12 o'clock.
Using the Kronos master slider to make further volume adjustments,as required,for audio recording via usb into an imac etc.

However,all audio outputs(Kronos plus other instruments,computer etc) go via a small mixer then onto the monitors.....not really ideal, due to adding some possible sound colouring, but it works for me having the monitor volume control in one place.

Although I tend to use the headphones more,lately....whenever I do use the monitors they've never been "overdriven" as such,because the overall volume would be painfully deafening at high levels due to their proximity....less than a meter from my ears.

I can imagine that monitors would have some form of built in "self protection".....usually distortion can be a good indicator if input levels are getting too hot etc.

Forgive the waffle....just sharing info....

Best Wishes.

[GregC]

Just my thoughts….probably won't be of any help,though...



However,all audio outputs(Kronos plus other instruments,computer etc) go via a small mixer then onto the monitors.....not really ideal, due to adding some possible sound colouring, but it works for me having the monitor volume control in one place.

.

I have made that very same point about mixers. I had a Mackie mixer some yrs back and it got in the way of the pristine Kronos audio.

I understand if anyone has to have a mixer. But if you don't need a mixer, remove it from your audio chain- hear the difference. And the Kronos does have a mixer. Route your other board thru that. Admittedly I don't have a 2nd board