First off, howdy everyone! I've been lurking on these forums for a while now, finding some good answers to some beginner questions regarding my KRONOS. But after some slight hair-pulling with this latest issue, I decided to hunker down and finally create an account.
Anyway, with that out of the way, onto my problem: I'm using my KRONOS as both my sequencer and recorder, bouncing the song to a WAV file on the internal disk. I've done this successfully once, but when I took the file and played it on my computer, it was unusually quiet.
This puzzled me at first because I had been using headphones when creating/recording the tracks, and I could hear everything just fine; I didn't adjust the recording volume, keeping it at +0.0.
However, going back to the MIDI tracks, I noticed the level indicators were barely registering 2-3 ticks, despite my volume knob being at about 1/4 (which, even with increasing the master volume, didn't change the level of the track). All the levels are at the max 127 fader volume, so needless to say, I'm perplexed.
Is there a way to increase the MIDI track level so that the sound is louder during recording, and thus the WAV file doesn't sound so quiet?
Thanks!
Question About Very Low MIDI Track Levels In Sequencer Mode
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
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FlamingIvory
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:10 am
Where is your Vector Joystick at?
My sequencer default songs are set to VJS controlling volume of every track regardless of track level setting or main&master volume.
VJS-X to the left, is volume down..
if Vector is your problem, then center it or EQ/Vector control tab page has another tab for the page to "Vector Volume" where you can disengage it.
I recently had Timbre/Track mode off and was in tone adjust page instead, which took out my Master volume control for 3&4 as outputs.
Sometimes a small detail that seems harmless, can take out sound or control over it.
I don't have time now to explore anything other than VJS as the issue, but i will be glad to put in time later to see what comes about as solution to whatever the problem is.
My sequencer default songs are set to VJS controlling volume of every track regardless of track level setting or main&master volume.
VJS-X to the left, is volume down..
if Vector is your problem, then center it or EQ/Vector control tab page has another tab for the page to "Vector Volume" where you can disengage it.
I recently had Timbre/Track mode off and was in tone adjust page instead, which took out my Master volume control for 3&4 as outputs.
Sometimes a small detail that seems harmless, can take out sound or control over it.
I don't have time now to explore anything other than VJS as the issue, but i will be glad to put in time later to see what comes about as solution to whatever the problem is.
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FlamingIvory
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:10 am
I disabled the Vector Control Joystick in all 2-3 menus, including using it for Volume, Control Change, etc. However, this still didn't fix the problem; the MIDI tracks still barely register 1-2 two green ticks on the level meter on the Play page.
I can also confirm that the Master track was at full as well, so no problem there.
The level sounds just fine in my headphones at 25% on the Volume Knob.
I can also confirm that the Master track was at full as well, so no problem there.
The level sounds just fine in my headphones at 25% on the Volume Knob.
My level meters, i usually have off but i just turned them on again and they do not rise more than 25% of the full graphic, except when i hit some chords really hard with high range included.
Middle C note by itself will not show more than 25% on the level meter no matter how hard i hit it, but chords with high pitch included will register high level nearer to 100%.
It seems the level meter reads low even at 127 track volume. That makes sense when i see i still have room to add Gain via EQ, Velocity based volume control and whatever IFX could bring to the mix.
If your head phones sound right, that is the same signal shared with L/R Main Outputs. If your speaker/mixer setup are plugged into L/R main, you should get the same volume response as headphone.
If your speaker/mixer setup is plugged i to 1&2 or 3&4 outputs, then they are separated from Headphone and L/R main. The 1&2 or 3&4 outputs will respond to Master slider rather than Main volume and also the master slider will behave differently based on your global system preference setting for knob/slider mode. I also notice that german grand does not silence when i slide master down to zero but the other programs i tested will silence. So all kinds of sound routing labyrinths can happen when using 1&2 or 3&4 as output.
If you are in L/R main outputs and seeing a big difference between headphone and L/R main, I can't imagine what is going on in Kronos, but always good to check out your sound system. The level meter are not really a straight forward measure of full volume because they do not read full meter range until you have maxed velocity input, gain, boost and whatever other ways of runnning up the signal. Like i said, i am at full volume on all controls and the meter is peaked at 25% with max velocity on middle C note. It goes up to max with added EQ-Gain. I always use EQ-Gain to add volume.
Having the meter maxed out at just volume controls and velocity input alone seems rather wrong when there needs to be room for EQ up and down form, and room for all the other sound parameters kronos has...
Auto HDR sampling set up in Sequencer has "Bounce audio track" option and that only works for audio tracks and not midi tracks. And audio track meters will respond to input 1&2 rear panel level control. If you recorded midi track L/R out to Audio track to capture midi track sound to audio, there can be a volume decrease in some cases, once it gets to audio track but you have audio track EQ to add gain at the various frequencies.
Each Midi track recorded to audio tracks via L/R rec source, requires 2 audio tracks, one for L and the other for R to capture the full stereo. If not, the volume captured to Audio can be halved. Either way, the audio track has EQ-Gain adjustment that lets volume go up and show in the meters.
I prefer to use "Resample SEQ Play" option in Auto HDR/Sampling setup. Lets me capture everything on all tracks, midi or audio ,without concern for stereo pairing and it goes direct to a wavefile i set up in any media, internal or external. Then that wave file can go into a single or stereo paired audio track. Saves room in less steps.
This is all i could find and if this doesn't help, i hope you don't mind that i tried.
I think comparing my level meter response to yours is definitely a start on clearing things up. I think your level meters are behaving normally if you didn't already have all eq gain and velocity input maxed out.
I always keep my level meters off to help save processing power for things i find more neccessary.
Middle C note by itself will not show more than 25% on the level meter no matter how hard i hit it, but chords with high pitch included will register high level nearer to 100%.
It seems the level meter reads low even at 127 track volume. That makes sense when i see i still have room to add Gain via EQ, Velocity based volume control and whatever IFX could bring to the mix.
If your head phones sound right, that is the same signal shared with L/R Main Outputs. If your speaker/mixer setup are plugged into L/R main, you should get the same volume response as headphone.
If your speaker/mixer setup is plugged i to 1&2 or 3&4 outputs, then they are separated from Headphone and L/R main. The 1&2 or 3&4 outputs will respond to Master slider rather than Main volume and also the master slider will behave differently based on your global system preference setting for knob/slider mode. I also notice that german grand does not silence when i slide master down to zero but the other programs i tested will silence. So all kinds of sound routing labyrinths can happen when using 1&2 or 3&4 as output.
If you are in L/R main outputs and seeing a big difference between headphone and L/R main, I can't imagine what is going on in Kronos, but always good to check out your sound system. The level meter are not really a straight forward measure of full volume because they do not read full meter range until you have maxed velocity input, gain, boost and whatever other ways of runnning up the signal. Like i said, i am at full volume on all controls and the meter is peaked at 25% with max velocity on middle C note. It goes up to max with added EQ-Gain. I always use EQ-Gain to add volume.
Having the meter maxed out at just volume controls and velocity input alone seems rather wrong when there needs to be room for EQ up and down form, and room for all the other sound parameters kronos has...
Auto HDR sampling set up in Sequencer has "Bounce audio track" option and that only works for audio tracks and not midi tracks. And audio track meters will respond to input 1&2 rear panel level control. If you recorded midi track L/R out to Audio track to capture midi track sound to audio, there can be a volume decrease in some cases, once it gets to audio track but you have audio track EQ to add gain at the various frequencies.
Each Midi track recorded to audio tracks via L/R rec source, requires 2 audio tracks, one for L and the other for R to capture the full stereo. If not, the volume captured to Audio can be halved. Either way, the audio track has EQ-Gain adjustment that lets volume go up and show in the meters.
I prefer to use "Resample SEQ Play" option in Auto HDR/Sampling setup. Lets me capture everything on all tracks, midi or audio ,without concern for stereo pairing and it goes direct to a wavefile i set up in any media, internal or external. Then that wave file can go into a single or stereo paired audio track. Saves room in less steps.
This is all i could find and if this doesn't help, i hope you don't mind that i tried.
I think comparing my level meter response to yours is definitely a start on clearing things up. I think your level meters are behaving normally if you didn't already have all eq gain and velocity input maxed out.
I always keep my level meters off to help save processing power for things i find more neccessary.
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Mulldoon219
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:12 pm
I'm just thinking out loud here. I've seen this *type* of behavior in the Casio PX-5S. If you record a solo piano to USB as a wave, it's pretty quiet. Usually you have to boost in a DAW to bring it to a good volume.
It's my understanding that this "headroom" is intentional as the volume increases as you add more sound layers (PX-5S is capable of 16). When you are playing a rich pad made up of a lot of layers it's not to tough to get internal clipping if you don't watch the levels.
So *maybe* that's the way it is with the Kronos: Built in headroom so when you have 32 tracks going they don't clip.
Again just a thought. I could be 100% wrong. LOL
It's my understanding that this "headroom" is intentional as the volume increases as you add more sound layers (PX-5S is capable of 16). When you are playing a rich pad made up of a lot of layers it's not to tough to get internal clipping if you don't watch the levels.
So *maybe* that's the way it is with the Kronos: Built in headroom so when you have 32 tracks going they don't clip.
Again just a thought. I could be 100% wrong. LOL