35C today but my PA4X is FREEZING!!!

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:47 pm

Hi everyone,

I'm now a member of the "Freezing Club!!"

I was able to reproduce the problem too - let me explain:-
I was helping a colleague over the phone today to set up and load a SET into his new PA4X.
It is a SET that we both purchased a long while ago from a reputable vendor who is very experienced with Korg arrangers and whom you all know.
I used this SET on my PA2XPro, PA3X and now my PA4X and had never encountered any problems
This SET was purely SOUNDs (with samples) so there were only 3 folders inside the SET (SOUNDS, PCM & MULTISMP)
Loading the whole SET put the SOUNDS in USER BANK 1 by default and all samples loaded and played perfectly.

So today whilst I was helping my friend load up this SET (developed on the PA1X originally), I came across something interesting.
I was anxious to remove and tidy up some of the SOUNDs in this BANK USER-1 and as you know you can do this by highlighting the SOUNDs to remove etc... and then using the drop down menu to delete.

Well, whilst doing this I noticed that 4 of the USER 1 "pages" were empty which was fine.
Normal empty SOUNDS appear with 3 dashes "- - -"
However 2 of these empty pages (16 SOUNDs in total) showed each SOUND as completely blank (no dashes).
When I tried to do things with any of these completely blank entries my PA4X instantly froze.
Reloaded the SET and tried a few different things etc... but freezing continued.
Even though this SET was clearly perfect on the previous arrangers, it definitely was not on my PA4X.

I do not know if this "blank" entry is an issue elsewhere (STYLEs etc) but obviously it has something to do with the new OS and banks structures.

If this has been reported before, I apologise - I couldn't find another reference to it so here it is.

Maybe something to watch out for

Cheers

Pete

P.S. I did manage to get it tidied up and re-saved the SET to avoid any future problems.
I am on 1.2.4 but this also occurred on 1.2.1

Snoopy · Post by **Snoopy** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:38 pm

Hi Pete,

so the "freezing" only occurs, when using "non-genuine-Korg-stuff" ?

And that stuff isn´t developed especially for PA4X but for "older" Keyboards ?

So don´t blame Korg for it...

The PA4X has a different "inner-structure" than PA3X, 2X and, of course, 1X.

I´m with you that "old things" SHOULD work on new keys but you couldn´t claim that it works for sure.

.

Anyway, the key shouldn´t "freeeze" but may refuse to play that sounds / sets / styles etc...

D575 · Post by **D575** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:52 pm

Hi Pete welcome to the club...... joking aside I will add your findings to my notes I am keeping here, sorry to here you have stumbled into this freezing zone but interesting to here your findings not sure it matches my action but certainly raises some questions ??? So pending a report back from korg concerning my back up file it will be interesting to compare any correlations between other members in the freezing club in are pursuit to nail this problem down once and for all..hopefully!....the strange thing is I have had a good weekend playing pa4x and not a peep, but last weekend twice this issue raised its Ugly Head ...to be continued I guess

... (Yes I'm still smiling.. just)

BR · Post by BR » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:02 pm

Snoopy wrote:Hi Pete,
So don´t blame Korg for it...

The PA4X has a different "inner-structure" than PA3X, 2X and, of course, 1X.

Hi Snoopy,
With all due respect.
This is not good and I think we should blame Korg.

According to the Specification of the Korg Pa4X, IT IS COMPATIBLE with old Pa series styles.
Here is the Specification of the Korg Pa4X about styles compatibility and it is very clear:

Korg Pa4X Style Compatibility:
"i-Series" models: Styles
Pa-Series models: Styles, Performances, Programs/Sounds, Songs, SongBook Entries, Pads

These official released information about the Pa4X (or other keyboards) are very important for the customers before taking a decision to buy or not to buy the keyboard.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:00 am

Snoopy wrote:And that stuff isn´t developed especially for PA4X but for "older" Keyboards ?

So don´t blame Korg for it...

Hi Snoopy

A few of things for me to point out which I should have been clearer about:-
1. I am NOT blaming Korg
2. These files were created professionally for Korg Arrangers (PA1X at the time)
3. Page 893 in the PA4X manual clearly states the compatibility with older models' files
4. I (and I am sure several others) have been using these files for a long time
5. I used them in my PA1X, PA2X and PA3X
6. I was mostly pointing out the unusual "blank" song entry so that others having freezing problems might relate to.

I am fine with it and do not expect, or need, Korg to do anything about this particular issue - I have cleaned up and re-created a PA4X-friendly version of the SET and sent that to my friend mentioned above.

If you have these "blank" entries anywhere and you go to use them like writing a new SOUND etc... then your PA4X will very likely freeze.

Merely hoping this might help others...

Cheers

Pete

triton_lover · Post by **triton_lover** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:47 am

Linux is generally very stable and suitable for embedded devices. How korg managed to create such an unstable linux based software?

Those problems can probably be solved with easy patch fixes, why korg delays so much to release an update?

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:55 am

triton_lover wrote:Linux is generally very stable and suitable for embedded devices.

Which versions of LINUX are you referring to as "generally":-
Centos, Ubuntu, Fedora, Redhat, Bodhi, Alpine - I can name another 30..... Oracle is probably the most stable....

triton_lover wrote:How korg managed to create such an unstable linux based software?

-1 Don't really notice that they have - like all OS software, it has bugs and it definitely isn't bland LINUX.

Those problems can probably be solved with easy patch fixes, why korg delays so much to release an update?

Because a known bug/issue might be trivial it is not necessarily "easy to fix" - often quite the opposite - the biggest and longest part is usually integration testing.

I get it though - we are now very anxiously waiting for some Korg PA4X news.... just wanting to know something is happening....

triton_lover · Post by **triton_lover** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:50 am

karmathanever wrote: Which versions of LINUX are you referring to as "generally":-

GNU/Linux is one. Distros are many. I'm not talking about distros, i'm talking about the GNU/Linux OS (GNU tools on top of the linux kernel).

Now, about distros, if a serious bug found (caused by upstream, or packaging or anything) it's a matter of days (if not hours) to release a patch/updated package.

So what is korg doing months now?

And seriously, an unnamed/blank entry causes OS panic? That's baby steps...

mstodola · Post by **mstodola** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:19 pm

Snoopy wrote:Hi Pete,

so the "freezing" only occurs, when using "non-genuine-Korg-stuff" ?

And that stuff isn´t developed especially for PA4X but for "older" Keyboards ?

So don´t blame Korg for it...

The PA4X has a different "inner-structure" than PA3X, 2X and, of course, 1X.

I´m with you that "old things" SHOULD work on new keys but you couldn´t claim that it works for sure. .

Anyway, the key shouldn´t "freeeze" but may refuse to play that sounds / sets / styles etc...

Then Korg should create an error message for the "inner-structure" issues it doesn't like. Locking up isn't the correct way to write code.

So somewhere it is verified that the Pa4x is using a Linux kernal OS. I know the Oasys did.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:18 pm

Hi guys

Thanks for your comments.

My point was to hopefully (and maybe) HELP someone having freezing problems...

At least now have look for any "blank" slots (without those 3 dashes) that may be close to what you are doing - if you are doing anything with these you may well get frozen up.

Cheers

Pete

mstodola · Post by **mstodola** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:32 pm

Hi Pete,
I think I have had the same problem with older Styles I've gotten from the internet. It is strange. I also have tried loading a Pa3x styles distro and the distro says that there are more styles than actually get loaded. I look at the files and they exist, but somehow the Pa4x won't load them. But I've learned the format for creating .SET folders from the computer. It's a good way to set up a USB using the computer.

But I think Korg could do better with the way they handle some of their interrupts and exceptions. Going into never, never land and locking up shows that something was missed. Like all I guess I would like to hear from Korg more. They won't even say that they are working to fix anything.

musiccankill · Post by **musiccankill** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:33 pm

Well i am almost sure it is not a kernel panic but an OPOS app crash as power off button still works (and this one isn't controlled by OPOS but kernel itself)...
So it is not a Linux problem but an app specific one (not only this but almost all the problems).
Also the distro is named Andoria (i am unable to find anything about that on the net though) and must have many kernel patches, not a default 2.6.32 kernel...
I am not going to get into more details though.I just wanted to clear things up as much as i can

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:35 am

Well i am almost sure it is not a kernel panic but an OPOS app crash as power off button still works (and this one isn't controlled by OPOS but kernel itself)...
So it is not a Linux problem but an app specific one (not only this but almost all the problems).
Also the distro is named Andoria (i am unable to find anything about that on the net though) and must have many kernel patches, not a default 2.6.32 kernel...
I am not going to get into more details though.I just wanted to clear things up as much as i can Wink

...can you fix it for us?