MIDI transmission of Set List Transpose Setting

[grbundy]

I use the MIDI out to supply my TC Helicon MIDI input to provide the keyboard content to calculate the proper harmony parts for my vocals. When using the Global Transpose setting, everything works great. However, when using the tranpose on the Set List, this does not change the Global transpose value. When I play with the Set List presets with changed transpose from 0 either plus or minus, the harmonies still receive the incorrect value from the global transpose setting. So - my question is how to send the correct transpose setting over the MIDI out to my TC Helicon Voice Extreme vocal processor (the value of the Set List Preset instead of the Global transpose) or how do you have the Global Transpose setting reflect the settings on the selected Set List preset.
Sorry for the long explanation, but wanted to be clear as I can. Any help is appreciated. Hope this is actually a simple adjustment bureid somewhere in the OS. Thanks for your help!!!!!

[19naia]

On global Midi page, be sure to enable all your midi filters such as "control change" and "enable exclusive". Just a guess as i do not have your device. Is your device set to the same channel as kronos global channel?

Setlist has to be open to whatever midi setups happen in Combi, Song and program modes. It can get complicated and bypass global channel all together. Program is rather simple and all of the modes are generally governed by Global settings, but notice how drum track runs on a totally different midi channel, mine set to Ch10.
And Karma comes in with 4 modules that can input all from global channel but output on any channel between 1 and 16 or Gch. Or karma modules can input from between channels 1 and 16 or Gch and output on Gch. All depends on your setup with externals involved or just internal.
Karma seems to be covered because transpose works at the input side of the module and then outputs the transpose setting along with the GE contributions.

So i noticed on combis in Setlist, the transpose function on setlist edit page, works for all karma tracks set with input only as Gch, even if output was not Gch or O?G. Drum tracks set to Ch10, did not respond to Setlist transpose input. Drum track responded to Global mode transpose input.

So that goes to show that anything removed from Global channel is not responding to set list edit page transpose input. Drum track is at channel 10 for me.

I think your issue is not being removed from Gch when going into your TC helicon. Karma may output on a non Global channel while inputting from the global channel but i am not sure what is going on there and how that affects it being recieved throught the midi out.
What channel is TC helicon set to? Is it matching yout global midi channel setting?

I looked at the global midi page and saw "position convert" setting with option for "pre midi" and "post midi". I am not sure what they do, but if i had your device, i would experiment to find out. This came to mind when seeing how Karma responds to setlist transpose and seems to take the transpose at the input side and then output it with the added GE on whatever output channel it is set to. I am still comfused about how Combi timbre sounds out internally on channel 1-16 when Karma assigns to it on that channel but a non karma combi timbre will not sound on channel 1-16, only if global channel is assigned to it. So some special midi bypassing or routing work going on with Karma and that brought to mind to explore the global midi page setting for "convert positions"- pre midi or post midi. Maybe unrelated but i won't know if i don't try it out.
Also in global basic, "transpose scale" or "transpose within scale"are options under "OSC/Timbre/Track transpose". Setlist transpose seems to transpose all OSC and all timbre/Track together in one action.

I don't have your device to use to figure things out more definitively, so sorry if i am no help but i am curious about your issue anyway.
I would start by isolating each timbre and seeing how it responds based on karma or no karma, drum track or no drumtrack. Also Program would be rather simple and should be straight forward play regardless of midi channel setting. Does program even have midi settings anywhere? That seems to only come up in Combi or Seq. modes. Maybe all this rant was excess if it turns out your issue was as simple as my first paragraph, enabling all the global midi filters.

[psionic311]

Hm, I was not able to reproduce your issue with my VoiceLive3. I get the correct harmonies whether using the Global Transpose or Set List Transpose.

Playing a C chord, and singing a C, the VL3 gives harmonies of C and E (major 3rd). Transposing globally down a half step, playing a C chord now sounds like a B chord, so I sing a B, and the VL3 correctly harmonizes with a B and D#.

With global transpose back at 0, using the Set List transpose produces the same results as above: correct harmonies. This includes singing down the scale and having the VL3 follow with harmonies that are in key.

Doing the same test above you get different results? You can try changing the Convert Position from Pre or Post Midi, but it still works correctly either way in my case, so not sure it will make a difference in your setup.

GLOBAL => MIDI tab => MIDI tab => (MIDI setup section) Convert Position: Pre or Post MIDI

FWIW, on that same page in the MIDI Filter section, I don't have either Enable Control Change or Enable Exclusive checked.

[grbundy]

I really appreciate the responses and the depth of the analysis. I have tried all of the options, but still to no avail. My Kronos X has the latest OS, and everything seems to be working properly. I connected up another Midi keyboard to verify the issue, and it is there. When using the Global transpose, the external keyboard tracks perfectly. When using a Set List with any modification to the transpose in the set list, the Kronos tracks properly but the external keyboard tracks at 0 which is the setting in Global transpose. Any change to the Global transpose changes the key in the external midi keyboard as well as the Kronos X.

Somewhere, somehow, since your keyboards are working with the Set List transpose, I have some setting configured incorrectly. Just cannot seem to figure this one out!!!

Again, any help is appreciated.

[grbundy]

Well, I finally got in touch with KORG USA Support, and it ends up that the Set List transpose function DOES NOT transmit MIDI data for external devices!!!

Here is the email response I received:

Thanks for contacting Korg USA Product Support.

Transpose only works for Internal sounds in Combi, Sequence, and Set List modes, not for External Sounds via MIDI.

Best Regards,
Product Support
Korg USA, Inc.

I wrote back to them:

Really would love to see this as an option in future OS upgrades. This would be an extremely useful option for the many of us who control external MIDI instruments and devices.

And they replied:
I’ll be more than happy to forward your request to our development team for consideration in a future os update.

It is almost unbelievable that in such a sophisticated instrument that this kind of core functionality would not be available as an option!!! Hope others write KORG and get them to make this a priority in their OS upgrade. And thanks for responding to and reading this post!!!!

[SanderXpander]

The set list transpose feature itself is relatively recent. They probably just didn't consider it important. Don't forget that there are many ways to transpose in the Kronos, some of which do transmit over MIDI. There's global transposition (does transmit), timbre transposition in combis (does transmit), program detune (does not transmit), and I'm pretty sure KARMA can transpose as well (not sure if it would transmit).

I agree that this would be a useful feature though.

[geoelectro]

You can tell the Global and Setlist transpose are different from each other. In Global, transposing also moves split points etc. In Setlist, it doesn't. (which is great)

Frankly the only time I use transpose is when rehearsing with a recording that isn't playing in the key we intend to use. It was a real bother when using Global Transpose messing with my split points. Love the Setlist version now...

Geo

[roundand]

Well, I finally got in touch with KORG USA Support, and it ends up that the Set List transpose function DOES NOT transmit MIDI data for external devices!!!

Here is the email response I received:

Thanks for contacting Korg USA Product Support.

Transpose only works for Internal sounds in Combi, Sequence, and Set List modes, not for External Sounds via MIDI.

Best Regards,
Product Support
Korg USA, Inc.

I wrote back to them:

Really would love to see this as an option in future OS upgrades. This would be an extremely useful option for the many of us who control external MIDI instruments and devices.

And they replied:
I’ll be more than happy to forward your request to our development team for consideration in a future os update.

It is almost unbelievable that in such a sophisticated instrument that this kind of core functionality would not be available as an option!!! Hope others write KORG and get them to make this a priority in their OS upgrade. And thanks for responding to and reading this post!!!!

That's quite strange - I play a lot of songs triggering sounds on my Roland V-Synth, which is hooked up via midi. If I use the transpose function in Setlist mode, it sends the correct (transposed, that is) notes to the V-Synth.