The wait is over! Apple finally fixed USB audio

burningbusch · Post by **burningbusch** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:41 pm

If you're buying a Mac, do your research. Don't assume the latest is the best. Apple has been systematically making their computers harder to service and upgrade. Often times, 2011 - 2013 models offer the best compromise between serviceability/upgradeability and performance. Here's some of the issues I found a few months back relative to the latest models as serious audio/music computers.

Mac mini:
- harder to get into the case (special screw heads)
- no second drive option
- RAM soldered to MB, not replaceable/upgradable
- Big one, no quad processors. Performance is half prior models with quad cores. Earlier quad-core models sell for top dollar on CL/ebay vs. current model.
- Mac mini quad used to be a viable option, now the Mac mini is an entry level system only.

Macbook
- RAM soldered to MB
- Poor performance core-M processors (done to increase battery life)
- 8GB RAM max; 512GB SSD max.
- Single port USB-C
- Battery not user replaceable.
- Not upgradable, not user fixable, everything is glued/soldered in place

Macbook Pro
- Pretty decent options available, IF a laptop fits your needs. But..
- battery glued on
- RAM soldered
- PCI flash proprietary
- Retina display is fused with no protective glass. If anything goes wrong with the display it's a very costly fix.

iMac
- First generation retina had RAM soldered to MB. Current generation does allow replacement of RAM
- Pre-Retina iMacs had magnets that held the screen to the case allowing the user to quite easily gain access. Current retina versions now use adhesive making it more difficult to open and far greater chance of doing damage in the process.

Mac Pros
- Three years old. Processors are out of date.
- Built-in high-end graphics of minimal value to audio/music production.
- $3,000 entry level model underperforms i7 quads. Offers less than 30% CPU performance increase vs. my 2008 2.8Ghz 8-core.
- Decent thunderbolt 4-bay hard drive case is $400.
- Many people are keeping their current silver Mac Pros and modding them and upgrading to 12-core Xeons.

Busch.

amit · Post by **amit** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:52 pm

If I go with MBP its gonna be 16Gig ram with fastest i7 etc as that is the max as of now, heard they were coming with 32 gig ones but not sure.

Its not for music (or rare use) but rather working with huge amount of data and running vm's etc otherwise might just get a 2nd tier MACPRO or Similar Spec PC.

My Current System is a 2011 i5 based custom built PC, WIN10 , moderately powerful and has been practically running 24/7 since day one.

danmusician · Post by **danmusician** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:48 pm

burningbusch wrote:If you're buying a Mac, do your research. Don't assume the latest is the best. Apple has been systematically making their computers harder to service and upgrade. Often times, 2011 - 2013 models offer the best compromise between serviceability/upgradeability and performance. Here's some of the issues I found a few months back relative to the latest models as serious audio/music computers.

Mac mini:
- harder to get into the case (special screw heads)
- no second drive option
- RAM soldered to MB, not replaceable/upgradable
- Big one, no quad processors. Performance is half prior models with quad cores. Earlier quad-core models sell for top dollar on CL/ebay vs. current model.
- Mac mini quad used to be a viable option, now the Mac mini is an entry level system only.

Macbook
- RAM soldered to MB
- Poor performance core-M processors (done to increase battery life)
- 8GB RAM max; 512GB SSD max.
- Single port USB-C
- Battery not user replaceable.
- Not upgradable, not user fixable, everything is glued/soldered in place

Macbook Pro
- Pretty decent options available, IF a laptop fits your needs. But..
- battery glued on
- RAM soldered
- PCI flash proprietary
- Retina display is fused with no protective glass. If anything goes wrong with the display it's a very costly fix.

iMac
- First generation retina had RAM soldered to MB. Current generation does allow replacement of RAM
- Pre-Retina iMacs had magnets that held the screen to the case allowing the user to quite easily gain access. Current retina versions now use adhesive making it more difficult to open and far greater chance of doing damage in the process.

Mac Pros
- Three years old. Processors are out of date.
- Built-in high-end graphics of minimal value to audio/music production.
- $3,000 entry level model underperforms i7 quads. Offers less than 30% CPU performance increase vs. my 2008 2.8Ghz 8-core.
- Decent thunderbolt 4-bay hard drive case is $400.
- Many people are keeping their current silver Mac Pros and modding them and upgrading to 12-core Xeons.

Busch.

Agree. I was waiting to replace my 2009 MBP last fall when the new models came out. I was disgusted by the lack of ports and inability to upgrade ram and hd. I went PC shopping and along the way found a 2012 MBP. I maxed the ram and put in a 1 TB ssd for much less than Apple charged. Does all I need to do now, plus I’ve got all the ports and an optical drive.

Valles · Post by **Valles** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm

Last update not working for me...
Does it work for everybody else?

DeltaJockey · Post by **DeltaJockey** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:21 am

Valles wrote:Last update not working for me...
Does it work for everybody else?

I've installed it on 2 different Macs using it with 2 different Kronos.
No problems with either.

1. 2015 Retina MBP
2. 2015 Mac Mini

Have you left any Mac settings off default when fiddling to try to fix previously?

Valles · Post by **Valles** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:34 pm

Have you left any Mac settings off default when fiddling to try to fix previously?

Where exactly can I check this?

19naia · Post by **19naia** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:54 pm

16gb RAM maximum on MBP has to be a decent amount for DAW work?
I still don't have one yet but have looked into ram requirements by my favorite virtual synths and it seems logic pro synth suite or spectrasonics are all well below 16gb for minimum ram requirement.
With selctive sound set loading, 16gb of RAM is enough to have at least 5 Kronos loads of maxed out sound banks.
I can barely keep up with what i have in one kronos load of sounds plus what synths included from iPad.

Maybe my case is simple with no big tasks beyond simply using music production software and modest Final Cut Pro progects.

I hope 16GB will be enough. ?

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:18 pm

19naia wrote:16gb RAM maximum on MBP has to be a decent amount for DAW work?

I hope 16GB will be enough. ?

I got 16 GB , which is the max on my 2013 MBP. Did this primarily, to exceed
Omnisphere/Keyscape and other DAW requirements.

Plus, I am a long term computer/mac owner. IOW, I want to get 4 yrs of useful life plus have some RAM headroom as softare apps will continue being resource hungry.

I expect much better quality from the software sounds vs Kronos. And Kronos is +6 yrs old. With software we are nearly talking in real time . Sort of apples/oranges to compare.

amit · Post by **amit** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:29 pm

16 Gig is enough for most. However my current endeavor needs around 32 Gigs in the laptop along with about a 64 Gigs in 8 core Desktop.

I might just give up on a Mac for now and get/build a Linux/Windows System.

Valles · Post by **Valles** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:15 pm

I is working now. All I had to do is change the USB connexion from my apple display straight to my laptop and to the Kronos.

DeltaJockey · Post by **DeltaJockey** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:06 pm

Valles wrote:I is working now. All I had to do is change the USB connexion from my apple display straight to my laptop and to the Kronos.

Glad you got it working. I was going to ask what your setup was, as it is very difficult to offer suggestions without knowing the circumstance

DeltaJockey · Post by **DeltaJockey** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:31 pm

Interesting range of opinions on what Mac hardware is acceptable for music applications. I've always been interested in what people have to say about this, as the experiences seem to vary a bit.

I started with a PC originally before Mac....well actually Atari ST

I migrated to Mac once there were more non music apps to make it worthwhile about 10 years ago. I agree with most of the comments here, that Macs seem to have become less versatile in their connectivity and configurablilty/upgradeablilty,
and while I don't consider myself a power user when it comes to music apps like some of you, I can give my own personal experiences with my machines.

I do most of my activity on my 2015 i7 16gb retina 15 inch MBP, and I have to say, it has never left me short. I have no trouble running 6 Kontakt instruments and one instance of Omnisphere, or a couple of Omnispheres and a couple of Kontakts..and a few other small vst's

I also run the same stuff on a Mac mini i5 8gb, and while it copes...just...I wouldn't recommend it. It is one of the those recent non upgradeable 2015 models, which I did upgrade to a full 1TB ssd, but I'm starting to think I might banish it to the TV entertainment shelf as a media centre. I tend to only use it as a scratch pad these days.

Other than the requirements Amit has mentioned, I think the average composer/performer would be happy with 16gb ram, though looking to the future of software requirements will probably see this having to expand.

I also have a 2017 15inch MBP, with the new usbc connectors. It is no less capable than the my 2015 machine. At first I was reluctant to accept the usbc connectivity, but as this appears to be a future standard not only for Macs, I've also found usbb to usbc leads, meaning that no adapters are required.

The thing that annoys me about Apple though, is that where they had the Mac air as the slim light weight device, and then the Macbook, why are they so intent on making the power workhorse MBP so minimalist too?
It 's supposed to be the power laptop with all it's connectivity. Are they trying t merge all there laptops into just one product in the future? In my view, there's a minimum size which beyond becomes impractical. Just because you can make it small doesn't mean you ignore the humans that interact with it.

bmtg · Post by **bmtg** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:57 pm

I was wondering why I hadn't had any glitching in the last few weeks! This is great news, I was about to spring for some complicated combo of audio interface and mixer to get around this, and now order is restored!

vEddY · Post by **vEddY** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:56 pm

amit wrote:If I go with MBP its gonna be 16Gig ram with fastest i7 etc as that is the max as of now, heard they were coming with 32 gig ones but not sure.

I'm sorry to say, but they are not, not anytime soon anyway. They keep doing their yada-yada-yada about how 32GB in a laptop will have a significant impact on the battery life and a host of other crap that nobody cares about. If somebody is willing to pay 3-4000$ for a MBP with i7 and 32GB of memory, that certain someone isn't going to give a rat's ass if the battery lasts 2 hours or 1hr45min. Because that's completely irrelevant to the usage model.

I bored myself to sleep just by typing that load of crap that they keep selling their buyers. The actual subtext of their message is - "if you want a Mac with 32+GB of memory and four or more physical cores, go and buy a Mac Pro". From what I remember, the latest gen of iMacs can have 64GB of memory, but they're stuck at i5 CPUs, which is stupid again. iMac Pro again seems like a (heavily) overpriced confirmation of the same theme.

Pardon my rant.

LivePsy · Post by **LivePsy** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:43 pm

Y'all just haterz. My mid-2014 MBP is an absolute champ. Never breaks a sweat with Mac music apps (Windows 10 has hot fan whining as soon as it starts up). Beautiful Retina display, beautiful on 4K external monitor (can't say that about Windows 4K apps). This thing is nowhere near struggling and nowhere near replacement and I've had it 3 years.

Hard soldered ram and PCIe-SSD ensures top quality and highest reliability, that's why they make them that way. Apple is losing money by making MBPs so good they last for 10 years.